OT: WWII Aerial Victories

[W J Pearce]

I know this has nothing to do with air racing but, this is the smartest board on the web so... I am looking for a source (web, book, ?) that would list aerial victories by specific aircraft type in WWII. Even better if it broke the data out to theater of operation and month/year. Both Axis and Allies.

As in, how many aerial victories is the P-51D credited with?
P-51B?
Me 109g?
La 5?
MC 202?
Ki 61?
IAR 80?
Spit Mk V?
Etc. for all the aircraft that claimed an aerial victory including bombers?

Get the point? Anyone know of a source that would be inclusive of all the fighting powers? Losses by aircraft type would be good too. Any ideas?

[RRMERLIN7]

Re: OT: WWII Aerial Victories

P-51D = 4,950

http://www.dixiewing.org/aircraft/p51/index.htm

I just did a quick check to see about the P-51D because im in a hurry but maybe that website will help

[W J Pearce]

Re: OT: WWII Aerial Victories

Thanks for looking it up and maybe I was not clear but, I'm looking for a source that would have ALL the aircraft of WWII that claimed a victory. I know I can spend a great deal of time to look up each individually but I was hoping to find a reference for each type, breaking out say, the different marks of spitfires and alphabets of 109s, P-47s, P-39s, etc.

With 500 page books on the joy of quilting I find it hard to believe that this data is not out their in some military history book. I have not found it so I am appealing to the brain trust here. This whole thing started because I stumbled upon a moronic post, so believe me, this is the smartest forum on the web. I just thought that someone would know of a source for all, or maybe a source by country.

Thanks,

[Peashooter]

Re: OT: WWII Aerial Victories

Bill: If the book's not there, you've inhereted (created for yourself) an important mission! It would be fascinating to see graphical presnetations of the kills by type at the guns of each specific type. It would no doubt reveal the gradual shift of the balance of air power and what aircraft and what strategic decisions led to the eventual outcome. Peas

[W J Pearce]

Re: OT: WWII Aerial Victories

Bill: If the book's not there, you've inhereted (created for yourself) an important mission! It would be fascinating to see graphical presnetations of the kills by type at the guns of each specific type. It would no doubt reveal the gradual shift of the balance of air power and what aircraft and what strategic decisions led to the eventual outcome. Peas

Yeah, that will be book idea number 12. I hope that it is out there because I don't have the time to figure it all out myself. I still have not gone through my Reno 2005 (yes, 2005) pictures. Besides, I understand that cool books don't make money, just that Harry Potter crap. If I were independently wealthy, I'd have so much fun (wouldn't we all).

[Apteryx]

Re: OT: WWII Aerial Victories

Bill-
I've been surfing around for a while, couldn't find anything with a per/aircraft breakdown...
These might give you some of what you're looking for, if not by chasing down the references:
Fighter Pilot 'Ace' list
and
World War Two Aces (by country)

surfing on...Paul

[John]

Re: OT: WWII Aerial Victories

I know this has nothing to do with air racing but, this is the smartest board on the web so... I am looking for a source (web, book, ?) that would list aerial victories by specific aircraft type in WWII. Even better if it broke the data out to theater of operation and month/year. Both Axis and Allies.

As in, how many aerial victories is the P-51D credited with?
P-51B?
Me 109g?
La 5?
MC 202?
Ki 61?
IAR 80?
Spit Mk V?
Etc. for all the aircraft that claimed an aerial victory including bombers?

Get the point? Anyone know of a source that would be inclusive of all the fighting powers? Losses by aircraft type would be good too. Any ideas?

Interesting question(s), I never thought of it quite like that.

What's amazing is that the top three WW2 aces(Germany) of all time accounted for nearly 1000 victories, and survived the war.

Hartman(352), Barkhorn(301), & Rall(275)
I believe they flew versions of the 109 almost exclusively.

[W J Pearce]

Re: OT: WWII Aerial Victories

surfing on...Paul

That's some good info. Thanks Paul.

Interesting questions yes! So maybe I will have to compile all this and see what happens. Anyone want a book like that in about 20 years?

[Dirk Gently]

Re: OT: WWII Aerial Victories

I remember seeing something similar to this in the hartman biography, the blond knight of germany.

Might have been just the german breakdown, can't remember. I'll dig it off the shelf at home tonight and do some digging.

[First time Juke]

Re: OT: WWII Aerial Victories

Interesting question(s), I never thought of it quite like that.

What's amazing is that the top three WW2 aces(Germany) of all time accounted for nearly 1000 victories, and survived the war.

Hartman(352), Barkhorn(301), & Rall(275)
I believe they flew versions of the 109 almost exclusively.

FAF 3 top aces scored 225 victories.

WO. Ilmari Juutilainen 94
Capt. Hans Wind 75
Major Eino Luukkanen 56

They all survived the war too. Luukkanen was part time in the office and Wind went to cadet school for a while during the war.

All of them flew Me 109s at the end but Wind and Juutilainen had around 30 kills each with Brewsters also.

Wind downed 30 planes in 12 days in June 1944.

Luukkanen was first finn to score in the war ( flying a Fokker D XXI ); he fired 187 bullet hits to down a soviet well armored bomber. This incident helped FAF pilots to find out the Soviet bombers weakpoint in 1939.

All finnish records are open for public.

Bill maybe you could find the right forum and put all the different nation historians to find out their countrys kills. I think Hungary has not done their counting yet 100 %.

rgds,

Juke

[First time Juke]

Re: OT: WWII Aerial Victories

Fighter Pilot 'Ace' list
and
World War Two Aces (by country)

Interestingly the last list names Tuomo Hyrkki..he is a relative of mine.

I find 5 kills with a Morane Saulnier 406 as a good tally...he also survived the war...unfortunately not the peace.

[Jay]

Re: OT: WWII Aerial Victories

This is what I have read by plane, but only for AAF in European Theater.

American Combat Planes
By Ray Wagner, 1960
-- this is a great book

AAF Fighters in European Theater

P-47 -- Shot down 3082 planes -- Destroyed 3202 planes on ground -- Lost 3077 in combat
P-51 -- Shot down 4950 planes -- Destroyed 4131 planes on ground -- Lost 2520 in combat
P-38 -- Shot down 1771 planes -- Destroyed 749 planes on ground -- Lost1758 in combat
P-40 -- Shot down 481 planes -- Destroyed 40 planes on ground -- Lost 553 in combat
P-39 -- Shot down 14 planes -- Destroyed 18 planes on ground -- Lost 107 in combat
Spitfire -- Shot down 256 planes -- Destroyed 3 planes on ground -- Lost 191 in combat
A-36 -- Shot down 84 planes -- Destroyed 17 planes on ground -- Lost 177 in combat
Beafighter -- Shot down 24 planes -- Destroyed 0 planes on ground -- Lost 63 in combat
P-61 -- Shot down 58 planes -- Destroyed 0 planes on ground -- Lost 25 in combat

Also included.
Navy & Marines total destroyed 8600 with loss of 2360 (no break down by type)
Corsair total destroyed 2140 with loss of 189

Have seen the totals for the Hellcat in the past, but did not find.

[First time Juke]

Re: OT: WWII Aerial Victories

Here is also Hellcat data:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=111001

[DON MCDONALD]

Re: OT: WWII Aerial Victories

Speaking of Aces,
Much to his delight and the delight of many a young
Fighter Pilot, German Ace Oberleutnant Franz Stigler, JG27 & JU44 " The
Galland Zirkus" holds court in Hanger 13 ( the Beer tent) at the Abbotsford
International Air Show each year.
Stigler, a delightfull old gentelman and longtime Abbotsford Flying Club
member has a record of 28 confirmed, over 30 probabables, in over 500 missions. He was shot down 17 times. Also one fo the first to fly the ME262.

[W J Pearce]

Re: OT: WWII Aerial Victories

Speaking of Aces,
Much to his delight and the delight of many a young
Fighter Pilot, German Ace Oberleutnant Franz Stigler, JG27 & JU44 " The
Galland Zirkus" holds court in Hanger 13 ( the Beer tent) at the Abbotsford
International Air Show each year.
Stigler, a delightfull old gentelman and longtime Abbotsford Flying Club
member has a record of 28 confirmed, over 30 probabables, in over 500 missions. He was shot down 17 times. Also one fo the first to fly the ME262.

Read this about Stigler. I think "gentleman" does not do him justice. Honor is an amazing thing.

http://www.afa.org/magazine/valor/0197valor.asp