Some Intriguing What Ifs? 1968-1988

[Lowell]

You could make a long list here but do you ever wonder what if?

Mike Carroll could have survived and developed his P-39 Cobra III into a Reno front-runner?

What if Mira Slovak would have been treated like a human in 1972, and done similar things under Mennen sponsorship with his P-39 over several years of getting the bugs out?

What if The #90 ultra-modified Crazy Horse P-63 of Larry Havens would have been similarly developed?

What if Walter Soplata would have grown up a huge Cleveland racer fan and decided to enlist a good sponsor, pilot, and crew for his #74 F2G or the rare F-82 for some Reno racin'?

What if someone could have bought the old Anson Johnson #45 scoopless Mustang before corrosion set in, and brought it back with spades?

Chuck Lyford would have continued his early dreams with faithful sponsorship of the #8 P-51D?

What if the Dave Allender micro-canopy clipped P-51 been funded and engined right?

What if Walt Ohlrich could have raced and groomed the F2G he had his hands on briefly?

What if the Tony D'Allesandris Allison-engined P-51D had been a success?

What if Dave Garber's push-pull rotary homebuilt been cooled right and given him an honest 800+ hp at Reno altitude?

What if John Sandberg's experiments with turbocharging the #28 Kingcobra been coupled with successful use of both that and alcohol fuel?

What if Corky Fornoff would have put an R-4360 in his Bearcat and brought it to race like Don Berliner once hinted?

What if Vendetta would have had a healthy and hot engine in 1988?

What if we would have not lost Mr. Awesome in 1989?

What if Stiletto would have sold in about 1991-92 to a serious new race team with a big sponsor?

A guy could go on all night but I'd have loved to see any three of the above.

Maybe somewhere in a parallel universe....?

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Some Intriguing What Ifs? 1968-1988

Wow Lowell...

I want some.. **errr....

Couple (at least) on the list are still around.. well, sort of anyway. Mr. Awsome *could* come back at some point. I know I spoke to a fellow over a year and a half ago who seemed pretty serious that he was in really close contact with Jack Frost and that the airplane had undergone some pretty radical mods and was "close" (yea.... almost done and 90% to go) ...

I'm going to default to old memory (CRAFT syndrome) here but I've corresponded with a Fornoff via email.. the son.. Damned if I can remember his first name...

Anyway.. HE's still around.

And there's a few that missed your list.. not the least of whom, innovators like Bill Rogers? What if he could find financing to revisit his dream of a purpose built racing "Learstang"...

From what I understand.. he *will* be back with Furous next year (gonna have to make some phone calls here!)

Anyway.. GREAT post Lowell!

Even though we've lost a lot of really neat potential racers over the years, we have a GREAT year building.. once again!

You just have to love this sport!

And the dreamers who make it happen!

[Apteryx]

Re: Some Intriguing What Ifs? 1968-1988

...And there's a few that missed your list.. not the least of whom...

Wildfire

CRAFT Syndrome? If that's cheese, it's Kraft

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Some Intriguing What Ifs? 1968-1988

Wildfire

CRAFT Syndrome? If that's cheese, it's Kraft

Ummn..... how old you boy?

Sumptin tells me, you got some comeuppance cumin someday!

[kiwiracefan]

Re: Some Intriguing What Ifs? 1968-1988

wow, there are some names that i havent read of in a while, a few years back i was collection a magazine here in NZ that one issue had a section on Reno Racers, and several were mentioned in the above list, the Likes of Mr Awesome, and Stilleto just to name a couple, they helps spark my interest in Air Racing.... Just imagine what could have been, and what is to come with the likes of WildFire, Shockwave and the Cornell Jackson Racer... Also, here is one that although wildly successful, What about the Red Baron, what could have happened if it was still around.....

[mayday51]

Re: Some Intriguing What Ifs? 1968-1988

Ummn..... how old you boy?

Sumptin tells me, you got some comeuppance cumin someday!

......yea,

Don't pick on the old guys.

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Some Intriguing What Ifs? 1968-1988

What if someone could have bought the old Anson Johnson #45 scoopless Mustang before corrosion set in, and brought it back with spades?

Richard Vartanian Owned N13Y, the Anson Johnson airplane back when he and Lyle were still working together, and I remember as a real little kid Lyle telling me about the talk of putting that airplane back in the air. So your next what if in the list could have been What if that Bearcat in Valpariso, had never been bought by Lyle Shelton and made into a race plane. Could we have had no real racing Bearcats after Darryl?

[speeddemon]

Re: Some Intriguing What Ifs? 1968-1988

What if Mira Slovak would have been treated like a human in 1972, and done similar things under Mennen sponsorship with his P-39 over several years of getting the bugs out?

Shouldn't that read "What if Mira Slovak had been able to keep his pants zipped in 1972?"

I like Mira a lot, and every time I have ever interacted with him he has just been a joy to be around. BUT. As a friend of mine in the hydroplane business is fond of saying: There are two kinds of women in this world...those who HAVE slept with Mira Slovak, and those who WILL.

Bill Harrah (of Harrah's) was big into hydroplane racing, and Mira drove for him. In 1969, Bill hired Ed Karelson to build a brand new, state of the art Griffon-powered hydroplane for Mira to drive. Construction was actually underway in Harrah's shop, and things were going nicely...until Mr. Harrah came home one afternoon to find Mira in bed with his wife, singer Bobbie Gentry. That afternoon the entire racing program was terminated, and Harrah never participated in anything of the sort again.

And as far as 1972, my understanding was that it was Mira's CHOICE to show up late...something having to do with a hot date with a flight attendant from Continental (who Mira was flying for at the time). He made it well known, and even lobbied the contest committee for the Unlimited Class a week before hand. They laughed at him and told him no...that air racing was serious business, and if his priority was to have some 'tail' over showing up on time, qualifying, and racing with the rest of the competitors, that they would just park his ass. He thought they were kidding...and they weren't. So he went on the date...and showed up late...and they did just exactly what they told him they were going to do.

At least that is how it was explained to me by someone who was not only friends with Mira, but also a member of the contest committe who made the decision.

[jarrodeu]

Re: Some Intriguing What Ifs? 1968-1988

You could make a long list here but do you ever wonder what if?......A guy could go on all night but I'd have loved to see any three of the above.

Maybe somewhere in a parallel universe....?

If only I could have seen these. Stupid birthdays.

Jarrod

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Some Intriguing What Ifs? 1968-1988

What if Corky Fornoff would have put an R-4360 in his Bearcat and brought it to race like Don Berliner once hinted?

Lyle had a pretty extensive file on the R4360 Project and it was talked with the Rare Bear, We were even fortunate enough to come up with a Pratt and Whitney installation engineering manual. But the Bearcat was ultimately just too small for the "Cob"

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Some Intriguing What Ifs? 1968-1988

Mike Carroll could have survived and developed his P-39 Cobra III into a Reno front-runner?

In my opinion this is favorite of your what if's, I have always thought that would have made a really neat racer, and funding wasn't hurting either.

That and what if the Larry Havens "Crazy Horse" got the -9 Merlin put in it that Larry was planning on? That was a cool airplane I remember walking around and staring at the airplane for like an hour on time.

HMMMMM......What if,

[speeddemon]

Re: Some Intriguing What Ifs? 1968-1988

In my opinion this is favorite of your what if's, I have always thought that would have made a really neat racer, and funding wasn't hurting either.

So what do you think about this, John? All the reports that were published about the accident said the plane went out of control before Mike jumped out.

But someone who was close to you and me said that was hogwash and that it was most likely Mike's inexperience with the airframe--unfamiliarity with a vibration that may have caused him to panic--and that the plane didn't go out of control until AFTER Mike jumped.

As far as I remember, though, E.D. was the only one who actually witnessed what happened, since he was flying a distant 'chase'....and he never talked much about it.

Thoughts?

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Some Intriguing What Ifs? 1968-1988

Ah.. Thoughts I'd only have in private, I always thought it very sad. Both Lyle and Darryl had volunteered to do the test flying for Mike, But Darryl was busy with Lockheed that day, and Lyle was with TWA.....So Mike went on his own. I personally don't like to speculate on a public forum about what someone that died did or did not do right. Mike Carrol had been a real good friend to my dad. Lyle has never talked much about it either, But I think your "friend" and mine are the same as I have heard that side also.

[T J Johansen]

Re: Some Intriguing What Ifs? 1968-1988

Richard Vartanian Owned N13Y, the Anson Johnson airplane back when he and Lyle were still working together, and I remember as a real little kid Lyle telling me about the talk of putting that airplane back in the air. So your next what if in the list could have been What if that Bearcat in Valpariso, had never been bought by Lyle Shelton and made into a race plane. Could we have had no real racing Bearcats after Darryl?

As I understand it Anson Johnson wanted (in the 70s) to get into a deal with the Bradley Air Museum to get the a/c airworthy and "do the job right". The job being the 3km record. The museum were to retain ownership, and Johnson would have the work done and paid for. Alas, it never happened!

For the "what if" brigade. Suppose "Beguine" had not crashed in 1949 but rather won! With N13Ys win in 1948, does that indicate that we would had seen several other scoopless Mustangs race after the Korean War? (This of course dictates that the races would have continued).

T J

[EastCoastFan]

Re: Some Intriguing What Ifs? 1968-1988

Good stuff folks. But what if the All-Coast Super Corsair was still around.....there's just something about that bent winged bird that was cool!! Let's not forget about Tsunami & what could have been given time & patience while we're at it.