F-105 at RENO

[440_Magnum]

Re: F-105 at RENO

Is this a game of six degrees of separation or something? North American built the Hun, and Republic built the Thud.

North American is now part of Boeing.......but I don't know where Republic ended up. General Dynamics, perhaps?

I lost track of the company formerly known as Republic myself. Back when the A-10 was being built it was part of Fairchild. That's about the last I know.

And of course General Dynamics only builds submarines these days. The aircraft company formerly known as GD, formerly known as Convair, is now part of Lockheed.

I get a headache just thinking about what became of all the old aviation companies.

[Propellerhead]

Re: F-105 at RENO

I get a headache just thinking about what became of all the old aviation companies.

It's always jarring to my ear at air shows when the F-16 is referred to as the "Lockheed" Fighting Falcon or the Hornet as the "Boeing" F/A-18 (one could go on and on).

Even though McDac and GD were "assimilated" it would be nice to honor the originators with a "developed by" credit or something...

[speeddemon]

Re: F-105 at RENO

It's always jarring to my ear at air shows when the F-16 is referred to as the "Lockheed" Fighting Falcon or the Hornet as the "Boeing" F/A-18 (one could go on and on).

Even though McDac and GD were "assimilated" it would be nice to honor the originators with a "developed by" credit or something...

The one that REALLY got me was a few years back when Boeing merged (i.e. dissassembled) McDonnell Douglas. Boeing put together a compilation poster of various famous aircraft that now fell under the 'company' umbrella...and had a big picture of a P-51 on it, next to an F-4 Phantom, C-17, B-1, etc.

How much of a stretch is THAT? North American Aviation became North American Rockwell, which was changed to Rockwell International, which was bought out by, which was, and then, and then......was finally merged with Boeing some 50 years later. So we now have a Boeing P-51?

[440_Magnum]

Re: F-105 at RENO

The one that REALLY got me was a few years back when Boeing merged (i.e. dissassembled) McDonnell Douglas. Boeing put together a compilation poster of various famous aircraft that now fell under the 'company' umbrella...and had a big picture of a P-51 on it, next to an F-4 Phantom, C-17, B-1, etc.

How much of a stretch is THAT? North American Aviation became North American Rockwell, which was changed to Rockwell International, which was bought out by, which was, and then, and then......was finally merged with Boeing some 50 years later. So we now have a Boeing P-51?

Yet another thing where airplanes are completely different from cars. John Slack should know what I mean. I've heard lots of talk about rebuilding an airplane where nothing is original except the data plate, and that's accepted. In the car community a "shoebox" car built from a VIN tag, fender tag, and other VIN stampings that can be welded into a compatible chassis is considered the absolute height (or depth) of unethical conduct. In fact, its fraud in most if not all states.

Similarly, you would NEVER hear anyone refer to a '51 Hudson as an "AMC," '69 AMX as a "Chrysler", or either a '72 Mercedes or a '69 Roadrunner as "DaimlerChrysler" products. Yet it seems to happen pretty fluidly in the airplane world.

[BellCobraIV]

Re: F-105 at RENO

Yet another thing where airplanes are completely different from cars. John Slack should know what I mean. I've heard lots of talk about rebuilding an airplane where nothing is original except the data plate, and that's accepted. In the car community a "shoebox" car built from a VIN tag, fender tag, and other VIN stampings that can be welded into a compatible chassis is considered the absolute height (or depth) of unethical conduct. In fact, its fraud in most if not all states.

Not only fraud but in the last few years swapping a VIN tag or "Rebodying" is a Felony in all states and Canada. Possesion of a VIN tag without a vehicle is a felony in some states. There was one case in San Francisco of a car that was rebodied in the eighties and sold for fifteen thousand dollars at the time, Roll the clock forward twenty years the car sells for 135,000 Dollars the new owner wants to redo the paint, the body shop owner uncovers the rebody/fraud, it gets investigated back to the guy that made a killing on the fifteen thousand dollar sale. (remember him he thought he did real good) The judge orders him to pay three times the sale amount for the fraud, so your thinking 45,000 dollars....... Nope 405,000 Dollars, three times the fraud committed on the seller. It's like the gift that keeps on giving. And nobody bit the buyers nipples.

[Victor Archer]

Re: F-105 at RENO

Possesion of a VIN tag without a vehicle is a felony in some states.

Sh!t, I have a whole box full of VIN tags for Roadrunners and Chargers. 20 years ago the junk yards were full of them. How cool I'm a felon for picking up junkyard parts when I was a kid..... However, I do have a data plate for a P-51D NA-25 and a little bit of the history of the plane.

[SpinB]

Re: F-105 at RENO

It's like the gift that keeps on giving. And nobody bit the buyers nipples.

Latin is too foreign a language! Caveat Emptor!!!!!

[Leo]

Re: F-105 at RENO

Hmmmm.
Back in the 70's we rebuilt a couple of very old vettes. The bodies were trashed, it was accepted to switch out the destroyed bodies )in one case it had burned out) with cars that had deeper problems (such as damaged frames) and also switch the plates so they matched the frames. For a true vette afficianado they were still reconstructions as the paperwork was incomplete. Guess we did a bad.

[BadIdea]

Re: F-105 at RENO

Is this what you are looking for?

[SpinB]

Re: F-105 at RENO

Wow, a Weasel, to boot!!!! It always cracked me up to see those guys launch...in 'burner...with the speedboards partially deployed!! My first duty assignment was Hill AFB, Utah and the the Reserve guys were still driving Thuds around the valley!......always sad to see aircraft you worked on or around in a museum, or worse, moldering away.....

[paceflight]

Re: F-105 at RENO

Nice pic's. I too walked the ramp at Stead airport and seen the F-105G. I wasn't bright enough to have my camera with me though. thanks for the pictures.
PS
Republic was bought out by Fairchild-Hiller becoming Fairchild-Republic. They where indeed the company that brought us the A-10
Thunderbolt II. They have since degenerated from Fairchild-Republic into Fairchild-Dornier, and eventually something company called M7 Aerospace.

[woofaero]

Re: F-105 at RENO

Thanks to everyone who responded

Mike

[440_Magnum]

Re: F-105 at RENO

Sh!t, I have a whole box full of VIN tags for Roadrunners and Chargers. 20 years ago the junk yards were full of them. How cool I'm a felon for picking up junkyard parts when I was a kid.....

But those are alien Mopars, right? ;-)

Well, I don't think anyone will come searching for them... er... I hope! I know a lot of guys collect fender(*) tags from Mopars (not so much VIN tags so much because of the legality issues). Now that people who've been doing that for years have started sharing info (at least most of them do, some of them wont talk to each other ) its actually a pretty good hedge AGAINST fraud. A cherry car shows up somewhere with a known fendertag, and someone will pipe up and say, "Um... scuse me, but that one was crushed back in 1981 and I've got the tag, so what's the REAL story?"

(*) Fender tags may be a unique-to-Mopar type thing, I know GM doesn't use anything similar, not sure about Ford. Its a small metal tag attached under the hood that is stamped with a partial VIN and alphanumeric codes for most of the options on the car. Its not considered a legal identifying tag like the VIN plate, but it does a much better job of actually documenting the car and a car for sale without its tag takes a hit in price.

[440_Magnum]

Re: F-105 at RENO

Is this what you are looking for?

Am I the only one that still wonders how the Thud got enough air in those inlets to keep the wick lit?

[Ron101502]

Re: F-105 at RENO

That is definitey an F-105G, I got to know them up close and personal chasing them (and NEVER catching them, and they were slower than the D models) while flying training exercises post-war in F-4s at Korat. The only briefing the gave us was "stay out of our way and if we lose the radio [USAF only had one radio in fighters and they quit fairly often] bring us down final at 208KIAS!" We could barely get our flaps down at 208 due to overspeed protection, we flew final at about 145KIAS (the T-38 is about 155 on final, the 747-400 is about 155-165, the DC-10 150-160). I remember they flew initial at 380, on takeoff we gave them 30 second spacing but would almost catch them at the end of the runway, they hugged the deck but once they got to 450 they would run away from us. At refueling speed of 320 they had their flaps out and couldn't get much above FL190. They couldn't turn or climb but they were just so fast, while our "peace time" cruise speed was 350 theirs was 550. (Normal combat cruise speed for the F-4 was about 440, corner velocity in the hard wing F-4 was 480) The front cockpit was way bigger than the F-4. And at 550 they could unload and hit the deck and hold about 650 with no burner. We did an exercise at Korat where a Thud pretended to be a MiG and made a diving pass at us at he said he hit 800KIAS! The F-4 redline is 750. I only know one guy, Dick Keyt (American 777 captain) that went 750 in an F-4 although I'm sure there are others. I know Thuds would run in on the deck at Red Flag excercies with ordnance at 650 and the wingmen had no problem keeping up. (That from Jim Perkins, former Atlanta ANG F-100/F-105G/F-4/ Northwest 747-400 captain). The F-4 had to be clean to get to 600 and probably needed burner to hit 650, I never went there on the deck (I do remember being #4 in a four ship taking off with 20 second spacing and seeing 575 in burner with two 370 drop tanks before going to idle and boards to rejoin on lead who was doing 350, this while climbing, pretty agressive but in hindsight a huge waste of fuel, just trying to shine my ass like stupid 23 year old kids do). I saw on the Wings Channel the test pilots ran in full burner at 50 feet AGL and hit over 800KIAS which is probably a record although unofficial. However Brigadier General (and ex-EAL 727 captain) Terry Maynard who flew F-105Ds in the VA ANG told me when he flew engineer for me on the DC-10 a couple years ago that an F-111 outran him in a Red Flag exercise, but I didn't ask him what the relative ordnance loads were.

Sorry if this is off-topic or boring, I know we old timers ramble from time to time.

Ron Henning