RE-Directing a thread

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

And about RARA.... really not bashing them, its just that economics drive therir goals

Bill, It's pretty easy to critique the way RARA does business but it's very important to remember. Money makes the races happen. To date, the Reno Air Races, under RARA, is the longest running air racing event in the history of aviation.

They must be doing something right.

I know we want more racing in more places, that's a given... but...

RARA gives us racing, every year, year in year out..

Do keep that in mind whenever you're thinking of the future of the sport..


Wayne

[BellCobraIV]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

Gotcha thinkin' about it now, didn't I, John? Lyle's Pitts is just CALLING your name!

Bad Brad, Bad Brad,
NO! Not Lyle's Pitts, I want to screw up someone elses toy. Lyle's wouldn't be legal.

The problem seems to be how much speed is available in simple solutions. This is a road that many that are smarter than I have gone down before. But I am going back reading what I can on the Pitts.

[speeddemon]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

Bad Brad, Bad Brad,
NO! Not Lyle's Pitts, I want to screw up someone elses toy. Lyle's wouldn't be legal.

Maybe Craig Hoskings' Pitts is still around......

[threeoneright]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

They must be doing something right.

Or, as some race pilots will tell you- They're all too addicted to stop. Because, as of now, it's the only place they can go out and play with their "toys".

[Leo]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

I think we've all had a turn at bashing RARA. There are probably many with good reasons to do so. But it does'nt solve anything.
I've been going for 30 years now, and I think every year the rumor of "this is the last year" is thrown out there. But each year the races continue. Some years it grows, some years it slumps. But with all the percieved faults RARA helps keep it going. As fans we have to remember that tho it is the biggest event in our year, it is not even close to being the big event here.
As far as advertising and promoting it goes, it would be great if some entity could step in and promote it on a national level and add venues, but who? None of us that are on this forum have the time or resources to tackle it. Until someone does it will remain the only game in town. The idea of a Nascar type circuit has been beaten around here and probably can never be more than just a dream.
And in consideration of the local promotion, I personally think that the Reno site is running pretty close to capacity now unless major, expensive changes are made. RARA probably sees that.
My $.01

Leo

[jarrodeu]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

Speaking of RARA I noticed that Mira Slovak won in 64 and 65, according to their website.

Jarrod

[garydpolansky]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

BellCobra1V wrote: Betty,
I understand more than most what it takes to promote this sport, I watched Lyle come home after many trips around the country where he had scouted potential race courses, Time and again he would open a file on a new project...................On the other message board there was a thread on Fantasy Airrace Venues. Has anyone taken a look at Double Eagle 11 Airport west of Albuquerque, New Mexico? It seems even better than our beloved Reno-Stead for airracing. Wide open spaces (no houses), minutes away from 500,000 people, great after hours entertainment (including many infernal casinos), hundreds of acres of rv space, a large Airforce base for support, etc.... Has anybody really looked at this venue? I'm aware that J. Sharp tried F-1 racing here in 1988-89, but was that a fair test? I think that with a major advertising blitz Albuquerque would swarm Double Eagle 11. Gary

[Kahuna]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

Here it is: Albuquerque Double Eagle II with Reno race course overlay !

Best wishes from Germany:
Willy

[Pete]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

[QUOTE= minutes away from 500,000 people, [/QUOTE]

Field looks good but ABQ is a long way from the next place that might have 500K people. Reno is 2hrs from the 2million in greater Sacto and only 4 hrs from the 8 million in the SF Bay.

[BKB]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

IF IT IS LEGITIMATLY PROMOTED "THEY WILL COME"
Just look at the overhead photo layout! The grandstands are on a straight chute! That would be like having the Main grandstand at Reno in the Valley of speed! I know I'd be there for sure.

Just my .02

Brian

[Skyracer]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

Field looks good but ABQ is a long way from the next place that might have 500K people. Reno is 2hrs from the 2million in greater Sacto and only 4 hrs from the 8 million in the SF Bay.

Airline service and proximity to many of the established race teams is also a + for RNO and - for ABQ. Also, consider that many crew members are volunteers and that owners and pilots have full-time jobs. They use their vacation time and own $$$ just to be there, and drive all night to get the spare parts, tools, and all the other stuff it takes to sustain a week on the ramp, to Reno (and back). ABQ is a long way from everywhere and most of the current teams would be hard pressed to support such a venue without a huge infusion of sponsor money to support paid teams and full-time crews.

I'm with Wayne on the "RARA is doing something right" side. I've been coming to Reno for 25 years as a crew member. I've endured the good, the bad, and the ugly; watched the organizers stumble, bumble, and flourish; and grumbled, mumbled, and cheered. While the present RARA regime may not be perfect, they must be doing something right just to keep it going, not to mention growing it. There is more racing, more airshow, and more purse money (I think) than any of the previous regimes. That all takes organization, planning, and $$$. Somehow, they keep it happening.

There is an aerodynamic rule that transfers to air racing. The aerodynamic rule states that when you double the speed, drag is squared. Likewise, when you double the racing, the cost is squared.

Certainly, it would be great if there were a championship air racing series with multiple venues and racing every weekend, live TV coverage and billion dollar sponsors clamoring to be a part of it...but that ain't reality.

Ask yourself this question: With unlimited resources, how many races could the best of the unlimiteds support in a year (assuming they all compete at each race)?

That's my $.02

[MikeS]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

My wife and I were in ABQ last year and took a hot air balloon ride over some of this area. If I'm not mistaken, much of this area is tagged for a future buildout of homes, much like the Red Rock area has seen. Is there anyone close to there than can confirm this? I've only been to ABQ the one time, and may very well have my wires crossed (it wouldn't be the first time).

[garydpolansky]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

Mike S, yes, there is a housing boom on the westside of Albuquerque (where I live) but there shouldn't be any houses around Double Eagle II for years to come. The Google Earth view supplied by Kahuna shows the isolation very well.......Pete, I agree that Reno has access to millions in Sacramento and San Francisco. But Phoenix isn't much further away from Albuquerque than S.F. is to Reno (O.K. bombard me for the Phoenix Failure). Also, fans would come in from Texas like they do for the Albuquerque International Balloon Fiesta. In fact, people come from all over the world for that (over 1,000,000 attendance).....Skyracer, the logistics problems would be pretty much the same for any new racing venue, right? If the problems you mentioned are too many to overcome, then forget about new venues anywhere. I agree it would be very hard to get all the aircrews here, but without a full force commitment we should never expect a successful new venue. Gary

[Skyracer]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

Skyracer, the logistics problems would be pretty much the same for any new racing venue, right? If the problems you mentioned are too many to overcome, then forget about new venues anywhere. I agree it would be very hard to get all the aircrews here, but without a full force commitment we should never expect a successful new venue. Gary

Logistically it is feasible and the problems mentioned were not intended to poo-poo the whole concept. I was trying to point out that it takes more than a new place to go racing, to go racing at a new place. ShermB's comments on staging the NW Classic races a few years ago (I was there both years) should be carefully read, as well as an objective look at Phoenix, Tunica, and other past venues. How many racers showed up? How many were truly top notch, Gold level competitors racing at a go for broke championship performance level? How big were the crowds as a percentage of population within 300-500 miles? What was the gate receipt? Compare that to Reno then find some good answers for the differences. I agree that it would take a "full force commitment" to make any new venue happen, but I am also trying to make the point that it is tough for many teams just to make the Reno commitment, and very few teams have the resources available to make such a commitment more than once a year.

[speeddemon]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

Here's a thought....

One of the bitches has always been about prize money, or the lack thereof.

A good point was brought up about when other race venues have been attempted, whether the 'top notch' competition has shown up. I would say its about 50-50. There were a couple of the Mojave races where all the big kids were there, and the competition was fantastic. Then there were others where the fields were small, and there was only one or two of the front-runners. Many of the other sites (Denver, Dallas, Kansas City) in the '90's had a couple of the hot Unlimiteds, but were mostly the middle of the pack racers. Phoenix drew pretty good quality fields (on paper, at least) the two years it was held. With most of these races, prize money was a percentage of the gate receipt, and more often than not, the racers never did get paid anyhow. Very rarely does the full field of all the hot-shots show up at an 'alternate' race.

But what if the racers were paid an 'appearance fee' to show up? Waive the entry fee...and waive the prize money. But everyone got cash and fuel to show up and race. Maybe it is worked out with the Unlimited class that the 'hot' racers get a higher percentage of the appearance money in order to get them to show up. But would that be enough of an incentive to support a new venue?

For many years the gripe with RARA has been that they pay airshow acts to appear, but squeeze the racers by making them PAY to race. Would paying the owners/pilots to show up, instead of offering prize money make any real difference in the attitude?