RE-Directing a thread

[SCEPTER]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

I you have money , you don't need brains. Now if you don't have money you have to be smart.I think RARA has been smart enough to keep the races going.

[ignomini]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

Several years ago, my company rented part of the California Speedway to hold import drag races and a car show. We spent $500,000 out of our own pocket - in addition to sponsor fees - putting it on. To organize a Reno style air race today, write down $1,000,000 followed by a plus sign. Now, go ahead and start hiring the full time staff it will take to get you there. I recomend starting with a damn good salesman. Oh, and forget about sleeping for the next 2-3 years.

Looking at that photo of Double Eagle II, am I the only one who doesn't see anywhere near enough hard stand? Go ahead and put bleachers, aircraft and vendors in the dirt. I bet that would go over real well on 2007.

Like RARA or not, today's legal, and business environments are hostile to starting up obscure events like air races. I wish RARA all the luck and success in the world, or there likely won't be any air races anywhere.

[speeddemon]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

To organize a Reno style air race today, write down $1,000,000 followed by a plus sign. Now, go ahead and start hiring the full time staff it will take to get you there. I recomend starting with a damn good salesman. Oh, and forget about sleeping for the next 2-3 years.

Back in 1985 when Tiger tried to self-promote the Unlimited race @ Bakersfield, he was quoted as saying something to the effect of "If I EVER mention doing something like this again, just shoot me..."

[Skyracer]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

Looking at that photo of Double Eagle II, am I the only one who doesn't see anywhere near enough hard stand?

Nope, you're not alone. I was just pondering that last night.

Oh, and did anyone else notice that a substantial part of the racecourse overflys the Petroglyphs National Monument? Think it would be OK to grade out primitive roads, clear space and run-in lines, and erect pylons on that land?

This may not be a real good choice for a new venue.

[Warren_C]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

Since, this thread was re-directed from the Merlin's Magic thread. I thought most would find this interesting, from a racer's perspective direct operating expenses, ie what does it cost to race at 61, 80 or 100 inches. I think many fans don't appreciate how much teams spend as opposed to how much they get in return.

When I lived in San Ramon, CA a few years ago, I belonged to the CAFs Golden Gate Wing. Back in Nov 99, Stu was our guest speaker, please review the linked document for his speech. Which is quite enlightning.

You can quick access anyone in the unlimited class running big power is just eating away his take from the purse at a pretty big clip per lap. While as an unlimited particpant you will get "paid" more than say other other classes. It doesn't mean that you'll make more money, in fact, the unlimited class appears to be a faster way of going in the red.

If this sport is to grow from a one venue paradigm, to multiple venue series, then the basis for that growth will always be "MONEY" or how big is the "PURSE". I should not have to depend on sponsor money as offsetting the financial losses from air racing. The purse should big enough, so that I as a privateer could show up race and pontentially win, and win big money. The Purse from winning must be attractive enough to make me want to push the equipment, and fly the equipment to/from where ever the event is. risk vs reward.

No modern day air race venue has put on a event with the a big purse, one that allows any team to get ahead, build on the win, do further R & D to become a winner year after year.

Why should I fly to Tunica or anywhere else, to lose money? We did not take our T6 to Tunica, because the trip out and back would have cost us more than what we could have won. Not to metion the beating the a/c would suffer.

Enjoy, and remember to keep this in context, this is one racer's perspective from 1999.

http://www.goldengatewing.org/proptalk/speaker.cfm?ID=61

[Skyracer]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

I should not have to depend on sponsor money as offsetting the financial losses from air racing. The purse should big enough, so that I as a privateer could show up race and pontentially win, and win big money. The Purse from winning must be attractive enough to make me want to push the equipment, and fly the equipment to/from where ever the event is.

That all sounds good, if only it were the real world. I have been involved in motorsports (go-karts, motorcycles, cars {sports, drag, circle track, pro rallye}, boats, airplanes) for nearly all of my life and I don't know of a single form or level where you can make expenses on just the purse. Certainly, there are big payouts with NASCAR and Indy cars, for instance, but the cost of being there is even bigger, and without sponsors you won't be there (unless your recently departed Uncle left you a gazillion dollars and you don't have a deserving Nephew to pass it on to). Think you don't have any sponsors for your T6? What popular hotel is emblazened on the side, how much oil did you get off the truck at Reno, and I'll bet you have a Champion sticker on there somewhere too.

[garydpolansky]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

Ignomi, my friend in Germany, Kahuna (Willy), and I went out to Double Eagle II after driving back from the Reno races in September to judge tha feasibility of racing there. The first thing we noticed was a lack of sufficient pit area and paved vendor area. This could be overcome if the city was interested enough. The airport will be improved anyway now that the Eclipse jet (possible sponsor?) will be built there....Also, Skyracer, the course layout by Kahuna was only a random example. Actually, I would have the grandstand on the other runway to avoid the Petroglyphs and the small volcanoes. This would avoid crossing over anything important, although the course would look much different....The biggest problems I can see is getting the commitment from the race crews and the mega bucks to get it started. Meanwhile I will see you all in Reno and only Reno. And that aint bad. Gary

[Kahuna]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

We are talking about possible sulutions in the future ! I don´t want to replace Reno, I´m not against RARA , but.......Albuquerque is a place worth to think about !

Willy

[Warren_C]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

That all sounds good, if only it were the real world. I have been involved in motorsports (go-karts, motorcycles, cars {sports, drag, circle track, pro rallye}, boats, airplanes) for nearly all of my life and I don't know of a single form or level where you can make expenses on just the purse. Certainly, there are big payouts with NASCAR and Indy cars, for instance, but the cost of being there is even bigger, and without sponsors you won't be there (unless your recently departed Uncle left you a gazillion dollars and you don't have a deserving Nephew to pass it on to).

Right, now the only form of motorsport to which I can compare Air Racing to is Bonneville. Long gone are the days of Jimmy D and GeeBee racing, back then aviation was a novelty, and the prizes were quite large, they were pushing technology and the risks were quite high in loss of life and equipment.

Think you don't have any sponsors for your T6? What popular hotel is emblazened on the side, how much oil did you get off the truck at Reno, and I'll bet you have a Champion sticker on there somewhere too.

You are correct; we do race with a hotel sticker on the 6. Since, the hotel is a class sponsor, I believe all T6 teams race with this sticker. The direct benefit is they provide one room free and then provide a limited number of discounted rooms to each team. So, if you are a big bucks team, the team owner pays your way. Each, team is different. Since, we are small potatoes; Race #444 has an all volunteer crew, which is led by me the Crew Chief and my room is not provided by the team which is okay, but, if we raced at multiple events I would not take the hotel bill hit. Multiple events changes the paradigm from just a fun thing in the Sept schedule, too hey team owner you are now responsible for my annual income, health care, and vacation, etc… you need to pay me for my services

We do not have any other decals or sponsors…Unless, you count the indirect sponsorship of Phillips and other oil companies have provided products, I would not be a good crew chief, if I didn’t work over the Phillips or the Shell guy to get more than the allotted limit for my team. Matter, of fact I have instructed any team member to attack the oil truck like a pack of wild dogs. Distract and grab, just joking!

I truly love air racing, I would love to see a multi-event series. I will more than likely step up to Team Owner role, when my current pilot/owner retires. I wouldn’t know what else to do in September. However, I am a realist, if you say build it they will come, I say serious racers will only show up when the event money merits the risk. Air Racing team sponsors are few and far between even the big boys are hurting from the lack thereof.

That’s my two cents – what do I know, I’ve only invested 8 years, guys like Slack and Goss, have been at it for decades. Enough ranting back to your original bat channel

[Bill Marsh]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

My principal race partner (Jr. fulers.... a million years ago) posted on a differend board years? ago about the "modern day bubble" we have enjoyed ..... with the CAF bringing their a/c.

as a real worry wart like me.... he wants the venue to continue forever, like i do

on a recent post.... it was said that there was alot of background activity going on (as i assumed) to promote this sport.....

all i gotta say is ..... if unlimited racing continues to , ill enjoy it and leave it be

IM JUST GLAD MY SON AT 7 WILL COM TO THE RACES THIS YEAR FOTR THE 1ST TIME.... AND HE WILL REMEMBERR THE MAGIC

As a dad... that good enough for me.

BMarsh

[thunderstangfan]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

i think everyone is missing the point about RARA, its not that they dont put on a good show its that they claim to be a non profit organization and the unlimiteds get to split up 160,000$
you cant tell me that it costs them so much money to put on this show that the purse money between all the classes is 1 million, lets take a look at the salary that MR houghton and the others are taking home, and then ask if its really worth it!
i think the owners\pilots should get paid first, and then if there is any money left at the end of the show then The RARA's "so called board of directors" can split whatevers left!
there is a disturbing trend in big buisness now days where the CEO takes these huge bonuses and perks for doing his job.
so lets propose to RARA that the CEO take a 105,000 dollar a year salary and then put a 2 year term limit on the job, let RARA turn into the orginazation that was interested in the preservation of airracing, and the furthering of avaition in this country, like they originally started out as!!!!
I think if we as fans are going to continue to expect the owners of multi million dollar aircraft, all the way down to the homebuilt guys to show up and put on a show for us then RARA ought to be expected to do a better job.
i dont know about the rest of you, but when i go by a T shirt from the crew and find out that RARA has to get their cut of that too, it makes me a little angry not to mention all the other games they play, like bringing water into the stands last year> i mean we could go on for days listing all the things that piss us off about the miss management of this event, so i will quit now
sorry for the tirade, these are just a few of the things that have been eating at me for a while now
Todd Smith

[ShermB]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

"if there is any money left at the end of the show then The RARA's "so called board of directors" can split whatevers left!"

Like all "not for profit" organizations, the Board of Directors DO NOT GET PAID. There are only five year-round employees at RARA. The "heavy" staffing during the race week is all volunteer. RARA owns nothing, but pays rent for the hangars and rents all the temporary structures, bleachers, boxes, sound systems, etc. Granted , there were a few bone-head moves like the water fiasco, but your voices were heard and the policy was changed.
I suggest you do some deeper digging to find out what the cost of that show is before you shoot off your mouth.
Betty

[garydpolansky]

Re: RE-Directing a thread

Thunderstangfan, I don't know about the other problems you have with RARA, but you said ".....and the Unlimiteds get to split up $160,000.".....I'm looking at my 2004 program from the races (the last one I bought) and it says the Unlimiteds' total purse=$745,000 (and a Breitling Chronograph). I realize that still isn't enough to make it all worthwhile, but it's a lot more than $160,000. Sport Class split up $100,000, T-6 $96,000, etc. Gary