Super Sport Approved by RARA

[King]

Re: Super Sport Approved by RARA

I would rather have seen them institute an Unlimited Lights class, and leave the Sport class the way it was. They could have used basically the same guidelines as they did now, and throw out that silly 5 kit rule. I hope that this move does not push out the Bronze class racers such as the Harmon Rockets etc in the near future, but it is so heavily biased toward the faster aircraft that it will happen. Any form of racing class needs an "entry level" to remain in existance. I think RARA is slowly closing that door for the sport racers. Also with the fuel rule stating fuel from any truck on the ramp, does that mean Daryl (and possibly others) will have to get RARA to allow them to put a diesel tanker on the ramp?

I see this as the start of the "Unlimited Lights". At this point there are not enough "Unlimited Lights" to make a full field.

Initially this will be a pain to the basic sports class, but when enough players come into the field, it can be broken off into a class of its own.

[Peashooter]

Re: Super Sport Approved by RARA

I wonder how many new designs we'd see without the 5-kit rule -- restricted to the Super Sport class?

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Super Sport Approved by RARA

I wonder how many new designs we'd see without the 5-kit rule -- restricted to the Super Sport class?

To me, that's the folly of the 5-kit rule. I don' think you'll see too many people willing to take the risks that Jon and Trish took with NXT... the 5-kit rule, in my opinion, will simply take us to a "modified" state with existing designs..

Because of the huge hurdle that 5kits is, I think it will stifle a lot of what could be really creative designs..

Jusst my humble opinion...

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Super Sport Approved by RARA

I don't think the SS class will ever replace the unlimiteds. Rather, I see turboprops coming on-board and taking over that class someday. The races need the big 500-mph birds to attract crowds (and sell enough tickets), even if they are Tsunami-sized homebuilts rather than suplus warbirds.

As long as they still have the speed and power of the hottest warbirds of today, I'll be happy to m,ake the pilgrimage to Mecca (Stead), though I will miss dearly the roar of the big recips.

As enjoyable as the other classes are, it's the unlimiteds that make the Reno Air Races the biggest and best air race it the world. Trade them in for some 350-400 mph homebuilts, and I predict a slow and painful death of the fastest motorsport in the world, as ticket sales certainly will drop.

.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Super Sport Approved by RARA

AD.. in year's past, I might have agreed with you.. but after hearing both John Parker's TM and DG's Legacy screaming by at power... it's really the prop that beats the air the most..

Yes, I would truly miss the mix of sound that both pistons and propellers make in harmony together but... I think if they go fast and have props, even if powered by turbines, the crowds will come.

Hell, I'd go to see Citations's run the pylons!! Most of us here would. I'd hate to admit it but I think, perhaps, the lions share of butts in seats at Reno come to see the jet teams anyway..

We bitch about RARA spending money on them and the flip flops but they're smart enough to know that we have them (jets and flips) to finance the holy grail.... racing. Throw an air race, omit the "show" and I think you're writing a blank check to oblivion...

Sad, perhaps, but true..

Do ya think??



Heeeeey.. I beat the spell checker again!!!

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Super Sport Approved by RARA

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd still go all the way to Reno for the unlimiteds even if the airshow portion was removed. I agree it wouldn't be quite as enjoyable as a combination race/airshow event would be, but I'd be more than satisfied with racing only.

If I want to see airshow performances, I can do so at the Salinas California airshow, San Francisco Fleet Week, Travis, Watsonville, and several other shows that take place with 1-1/2 hour's drive from home.

But only in Reno can I see closed-circuit air racing of former WWII warbirds and the powerful customs created to try to dethrone them.


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[sierra fox]

Re: Super Sport Approved by RARA

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd still go all the way to Reno for the unlimiteds even if the airshow portion was removed. I agree it wouldn't be quite as enjoyable as a combination race/airshow event would be, but I'd be more than satisfied with racing only.

If I want to see airshow performances, I can do so at the Salinas California airshow, San Francisco Fleet Week, Travis, Watsonville, and several other shows that take place with 1-1/2 hour's drive from home.

But only in Reno can I see closed-circuit air racing of former WWII warbirds and the powerful customs created to try to dethrone them.


.

What he said!!!

[zeke]

Re: Super Sport Approved by RARA

So ladies and germs,

Whats on the table now that will fill this "grand SS" class.

1> a lyc 720
2> a super lyc 720 ++
3> a symeaze (sp?
5> dougle alloy rat 502
4> a turboed... big NOS tanked R985
6> falconer v16
7> a real viable neo 1000 CID R roundy motor from CCCP or Panda land.


Over,
BMarsh

Ok I know what some of them are, but what exactly is;

Symeaze?
dougle alloy rat 502?

Google didn't even help me work it out

Never knew there were any falconer v16 built.

The ruskys & chinese roundys, only one's I know of that have been built in the last few decades were the one in the aeorbatic aircraft (up to 460hp) and the one out of the Antonov 2. Not sure of the disp but I don't think it's high on power, and very big & heavy (no chance of getting it in something under 4500lbs)

Am I missing something? , or is there more options out there than I know of.

About the Legend, I've always liked the concept and it's looks. How would that go with say a similar motor to Blue Thunders TM? Supercharged + with ADI etc with over 100hp. In Stats it is close to a TM
Heard yrs ago it rounded the pylons but not as quick as a TM (don't know what the motor was meant to be producing). It would be nice to see another airframe out there.

[Reno_Steve]

Re: Super Sport Approved by RARA

What do the fans go to see ?

There are better airshows all round the world except none of the others have air racing.

Big fast aircraft are popular and I dont think they need to be war birds.
The only reason I went to Reno (from the UK) was for the racing and especially to see the Pond Racer (it was 1991).
I would have thought turbo props would be one way of getting round the shortage of suitable engines, and most fans really would not notice the difference.

An Unlimmited light class would be popular with me and maybe the Super Sport will evolve into this, all it really needs is to set a max weight the same as the min weight for unlimiteds, throw away the max engine size rule and minimum number of kits.
The reason for the weight limits , I hear is to allow aircraft to fly with out fear of extreme turbulance from much larger aircraft.

I think the introduction of Super Sport class is a good idea and I will follow the racing closely. Maybe initially they should drop the minimum kits rule to a smaller number ie 2 to reduce costs for new designs.

[Relentless]

Re: Super Sport Approved by RARA

A Relentless point of view!

I have never heard anyone in the Sport Class suggest that the Sports will someday REPLACE the unlimited classes. We are simply another group of fired up aviation enthusists that want to race our rides!

Many suggest the Sport Class should morph itself into some sort of Unlimited variant. One off racers etc.... I think rather than try and change the Sports maybe the Unlimited folks need to learn from the successes we are having and get back to their roots. Darryl and Jon Parker above anyone should be able to decide if they want to build a one off racers compete in the UNLIMITED Races! I checked with Darryl and he swears there is no prop-wash in front!

I strongly disagree with the mentality that the Unlimited Class has by limiting weight and making the class a warbird class. I read a string some time ago that listed many famous racers that would not been able to race if the 4500 limit was in place back then. The Unlimited Class needs to listen to it's fans and if they cannot get people to spend millions of dollars to cut up warbirds then the class is responsible to make changes necessary to keep the fan base interested. Unlimited should be UNLIMITED! That is it's roots.

The Sport Class is trying build our class on safety and the enthusiasm of others building the same aircraft we race. We are not trying to replace anyone and definitely not trying to push anyone out the bottom.

The SS is meant to allow our class to grow in speed and innovation at the same time preserving our racers that bring their innovative daily drivers up to compete. I predict the racing is going to get very exciting when the planes get closer and the pilot skills mean more.

We are still Relentless!!!

[Skyracer]

Re: Super Sport Approved by RARA

Also with the fuel rule stating fuel from any truck on the ramp, does that mean Daryl (and possibly others) will have to get RARA to allow them to put a diesel tanker on the ramp?

I would expect "racing" diesels to operate on Jet A (with additives?). The current crop of certificated and development aircraft diesel's are designed for Jet A.

[Leo]

Re: Super Sport Approved by RARA

Your right Wayne. The true junkies will come out no matter WHAT races. I get just as much excitement out of the F-1's as I do the unlimiteds. I also agree that the airshow is what keeps it alive. Most of the people I know that ARE NOT die-hard fans come for the noise and excitment. They do not care if it is a mustang or a Pitts. They want to see the flip-flops and the smoke. More power to them. They come out!
I still see sport class as a slow return to the roots of air racing, when the guy in his workshop with a good idea can compete. I used to feel it was just a way for those that had faster homebuilts to do something different, but no more. I am looking forward to the competition. The best race I have seen in a long time was Greenemeyer vs. Parker a couple of years ago.
Bring it on!

[SCEPTER]

Re: Super Sport Approved by RARA

We are still Relentless!!!

GOOD!

now for the stupid questions.

Under the new rules,would you be able to put a bigger motor on an NXT? Such as a 780? Would you even want to?

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Super Sport Approved by RARA

Your right Wayne. The true junkies will come out no matter WHAT races. I get just as much excitement out of the F-1's as I do the unlimiteds. I also agree that the airshow is what keeps it alive. Most of the people I know that ARE NOT die-hard fans come for the noise and excitment. They do not care if it is a mustang or a Pitts. They want to see the flip-flops and the smoke. More power to them. They come out!
I still see sport class as a slow return to the roots of air racing, when the guy in his workshop with a good idea can compete. I used to feel it was just a way for those that had faster homebuilts to do something different, but no more. I am looking forward to the competition. The best race I have seen in a long time was Greenemeyer vs. Parker a couple of years ago.
Bring it on!

Thanks Leo.... Truly, to make an air race financially viable, as Reno has done for all these years, they have been and are, playing smart! Getting the big jet demo teams in puts more $$ paying butts in seats than do our racers... or at least, enough to more than pay their way and bring in funds needed to make the races work.

I don't think there are too many "air shows" that have the budget that Reno has with an over 1 million dollar purse.. That money's gotta come from somewhere and I think, despite our constant plea for "more racing!", they somehow find the balance that works and keeps working!

Beer Nazi, for one, gets a bigger kick out of seeing the zoomies and flips than she does the racers! They are closer, louder (sometimes) and she does not have any problems knowing what's going on.. They are flying, making noise and doing strange things in the sky.

I'm pretty sure that close to half or more of the folks in the seats buying tickets are of the same mind.. (note, I did NOT say folks in the pits where we, the truly addicted must go to get our fix of fumes and the rest)

Dangit Leo.. ya got me all fired up here! I sort of go into a coma during the off season... (the rest of the year) makes the time go faster... I get a thrill once in a while during the off season..

Someone who was standing near asked me "do you ever think of ducking?"

Naaaa!

Neither are great photos, the light was waaaay beyond sucky, as in nearly dark and extremely overcast.. That and I didn't know he was gonna do what he did until the last second, I had a hole in my tennis racket, the dog ate my homework, etc, etc, etc...

[Stevo]

Re: Super Sport Approved by RARA

So Wayne, are those from your recent trip to Texas? Can we expect to see more?

And just not to get too far off thread... I totaly agree with what Wayne and Leo have said