My dream...

[jarrodeu]

Re: My dream...

So as I have it recorded so far:

Speeddemon
Fenceliner01
WarrenC
Jeff Loewe
Neal to busy doing real stuff
Victor
Jeffrey
Shawn
Tim Adams
Wayne
Jarrod
??????????

Come on guys (and gals)....let's have some fun this year.

Seeing ones name there sure makes ya feel good, even if it is outclassed by everyone elses.
I would love to go out on the pylons and participate, unfortunately (1) I'm not qualified as media. (2) I believe you have to be 21 to go out on the pylons, and I'm only 19. Oh well.

Jarrod

[Stevo]

Re: My dream...

Pylons aren't a requirement.

This, as envisioned, is a contest amongst the 'established shooters', so I would say credentialed media only. This gives the opportunity for pylon/special access.

Who's making the rules here?

[fenceliner01]

Re: My dream...

Who's making the rules here?

That raises a question. What does it take to be considered "credentialed media" by RARA?

I would imagine a firm connection to an established aviation publication would suffice, but what about first-time shooters, free-lance photographers, and the like. Does having your own webstie qualify you, and if so , is it based on the number of "hits". If you've been published, how many times do you have to have been published to qualify? How do you provide proof?

Are applications reviewed, i.e. do long time photographers automatically get credentials, or do they have to consistently be published, or affiliated with a publication?

If anyone can point me to a section of the RARA web site that covers this, I'd appreciate it.

Mike.

[Stevo]

Re: My dream...

POINTING

It answers most of your questions.

Check THIS one out too. If you scroll down to the bottom you'll see a section titled "web site".

[speeddemon]

Re: My dream...

That raises a question. What does it take to be considered "credentialed media" by RARA?

I would imagine a firm connection to an established aviation publication would suffice, but what about first-time shooters, free-lance photographers, and the like. Does having your own webstie qualify you, and if so , is it based on the number of "hits". If you've been published, how many times do you have to have been published to qualify? How do you provide proof?

Are applications reviewed, i.e. do long time photographers automatically get credentials, or do they have to consistently be published, or affiliated with a publication?

If anyone can point me to a section of the RARA web site that covers this, I'd appreciate it.

Mike.

This is an oft-debated subject. For the most part, you have to be a part of an established media outlet of some kind--in other words, you have to prove that you are getting the 'story' of the Reno Air Races out to the public through established channels.

They 'do' allow new people in, however you usually need to be on 'assignment' from a given media source. There are some established 'free-lance' photographers that get credentials, but I think you'll find one way or another that even they are 'tied' to a certain publication or something when they fill out the application.

I started going to the pylons in '86 on assignment from the Pacific Flyer. But when Pacific Flyer essentially 'stopped' reporting after being treated bad by RARA, that source disappeared. I didn't start getting press credentials until almost 10 years later when I picked up a job as Air Racing Editor for a magazine. Since then, every year when I apply, I essentially have to submit to RARA a letter of assignment designating 'me' as the guy the publication wants there, and I have to provide a copy of Reno coverage from the previous year (or at least the last time your publication was present).

Obviously, there are loopholes, because I know some of the very good photographers 'supply' photos to multiple sources--Neal Nurmi, Shawn and Charlene Aro, Paul Newman, Ed Anderson, Jim Dunn, and Gerry Liang to name but a few--who are't necessarily assigned to any single media outlet, but consistently, year after year, supply tons of photos to NAG, RARA, and various aviation publications.

But the process is renewed every year, and you have to jump through the same hoops each time. You don't get 'grandfathered in' just because you're, say, Wayne Sagar. "Did you submit an application, Mr. Sagar?" "Uh, no....sort of forgot". "I'm sorry....try again next time." (Not picking on you, Wayne...I know you haven't done that for real).

"The name" doesn't work anymore. Getting a credential with the 'don't you know who I am?' attitude stopped with a certain well-known air racing writer who pretty much coasted on his laurels for several years before RARA figured out he wasn't producing anything at a rate faster than a glacier--for kicks and grins, we'll call him Tohn Jegler, lets say....

RARA kind of goes through phases of who and how many they will let out at the pylons or issue passes to. They may issue multiple credentials to larger, more popular publications, but they may only issue ONE pylon pass...which is different from a press pass. You have to have both to go out to shoot at the pylons. But you can still be issued a press pass and cover the event just fine from the pits/stands.

I know some of the established guys on this site will attest to the old days of there being 'point and shoot' cameras out at the pylons. WHAT??????? How did THAT guy get credentials? MOST of the people out at the pylons are out there to do a job...and that is what RARA tries to limit it to--strictly people out there doing their job.

Its not an 'exclusivity' thing so much as a safety thing. It is work out at the pylons and it is dangerous. I think one of the Luvara brothers had a great comment about it over on Scotty G's site last year. HOURS of sheer boredom interspaced with about five minutes of action so fast you can't keep up. Once you're out at the pylons, you pretty much stay out there....and unless there is a race going on, you are very far removed from the show, the amenities are a bare minimum (so you gotta bring your own), and it can be miserable because there is no protection from the elements.

The cool thing about it, though...is once you're done publishing your photos, writing your story, filming your report, whatever....then you can come on sites like this and impress the hell out of everyone. And THAT is what is so much fun. That is why we get to see Vic, and Neal, and Tim, and, and, and....all the magic.

I don't know if that answers your question or not. And if not...too bad, because at least I was able to pump my chest and feel important. NAW, not me.......

[fenceliner01]

Re: My dream...

I can remember "back in the day" (late 70's/early 80's) when I would just go to the sports desk at the Reno Evening Gazette / Nevada State Journal, show them my equipment and a proof sheet I shot in the pits the previous year, and ask them for a letter. I'd shoot two or three rolls of Plus-X a day for them, get it to the desk before 6 p.m., and maybe they'd use something if Marilyn Newton didn't make it out that day.


Also, in the "good old boy" days, I'd bust my ass at Great Basin Aerial Surveys to produce the photomosaic crash grid that all the rescue vehicles carried in their cabs. That was about $2000.00 worth of free work for RARA and the director would give me a press pass for my efforts.

I know what you mean about being out on your own for the best part of a day. At that time, there were only a couple of pylons you could shoot from, and the only transport was the backs of jeeps or pickup trucks when the pylon judges would shuttle back and forth between class races. I saw some expensive equipment get trashed in the dust because the photog just had his cameras hanging from his body instead of inside a suitcase.


Unfortunately, all the stuff I shot from those days seems to reside in the same hiding place as the rolls of 8mm movies my dad shot from '64 to '70. Someday!

[Victor Archer]

Re: My dream...

hey Victor, why would you want to go to nikon when Canon have the 1dmk III out soon, blow everything including Nikon got including the D2X into the weeds...... 10mp, 10fps for 11 seconds....

So is the 5k check in the mail for me to buy a new camera???
Including new equipment for my boy, I spent almost $15,000 camera gear last year.
Hope you all are enjoying the pix...

[wingman]

Re: My dream...

Damn Victor, you even got me beat for expenditures, by a bunch! That's downright scary, considering the financial returns in this hot field of airplane photography.

I'm lucky so far, in that Birgitta still doesn't want to deal with digital. If I'd had to get her a couple of D200s, we would have been up towards your total. Though still not quite to 15K. Unfortunately for you, Jeffrey really is good enough already and absolutely promising enough that you really can't avoid investing in his talent, as well as your own...

I'm sure enjoying your stuff and Jeffrey's too. It's gonna be a good year for pictures on AAFO...

Neal

[Victor Archer]

Re: My dream...

Isn't this a commercial endeavor for you?
Commercial - as in... you make $$ from it?

No, I could never recover the cost.
I do it because I love being a part of air shows and air racing. I went to my first air show at the age of one month and took my first airplane ride at three months. Every air show performer and racing pilot that I have had the honor of signing a print for me I have given them one in return for free. If this were a "Commercial endeavor" I would not have a FREE on-line gallery for any one to go visit at anytime and I would not bother to take the time and effort to post images for free on free sites like this. Yes I have a Cafepress site but as it is it only pays for it's self and is it wrong to try to make a little money to cover the cost involved in traveling to all the events I go to? I write air show reviews for the Airport Journal and do what I can to help promote performers and air show venues. I have a very long list of people and events that I have donated my time and images too for FREE for their self promotion.

[jarrodeu]

Re: My dream...

Hope you all are enjoying the pix...

Well of course we do!

Jarrod

[fenceliner01]

Re: My dream...

Damn Victor, you even got me beat for expenditures, by a bunch! That's downright scary, considering the financial returns in this hot field of airplane photography.

I'm lucky so far, in that Birgitta still doesn't want to deal with digital. If I'd had to get her a couple of D200s, we would have been up towards your total. Though still not quite to 15K. Unfortunately for you, Jeffrey really is good enough already and absolutely promising enough that you really can't avoid investing in his talent, as well as your own...

I'm sure enjoying your stuff and Jeffrey's too. It's gonna be a good year for pictures on AAFO...

Neal

It's all relative - People spend money on what's important to them, and not what makes other people happy. I've dropped about $7000.00 on my dog this year for various surgeries and hospital visits, and another $500.00 helping to place other rescue dogs. Felia does generate a large cuteness factor when I post her pictures on the Internet, though, and everybody seems to like pictures of her on my site.

[wingman]

Re: My dream...

Say you sell prints for $20 each for an 8x10, which is more, actually than most folks want to pay. It costs, say 5 bucks to make the print, so you net $15 for the print -- how many prints do you have to sell to make a decent profit? How, really, does one sell a thousand high priced prints? You are printing the picture with an $800 printer, you took the picture with $10,000 worth of cameras, at an air show that often cost at least several hundred bucks to attend, with transportation, motels, food etc. Then there's the time -- sorting, discarding, processing -- a print can easily take an hour to do. What is your time worth?

Magazines? Getting a photo published in a aviation magazine will pay anywhere from nothing to maybe 100-150 bucks a picture. I don't think we've ever gotten much more than $500 or so even for an article with some pictures when we wrote the article, which took many many hours of writing and working with the images. How many articles a year to make a living? Check your local magazine store to see how many aviation magazines there are. Then at Reno this fall have a look at how many people are on the press bus.

There are at least a zillion aspiring photogs and writers out there, many of whom are really pretty good. There are always MANY photographers who are more than willing to give stuff away for nothing to get published, or to try to be friends with a pilot, or whatever... Why should a magazine, or pilot, spend significant money on pictures when they can get something pretty good for free?

No, I agree with Victor that most of us do it because it's fun, and gives us a way to be participants rather than just spectators.

Economically it makes no sense at all, as my wife has pointed out many many times over the years.

We make about as much money taking pictures as the average race pilot makes air racing....

Neal

[Victor Archer]

Re: My dream...

My bad, I thought you did this for a living.

No, I work full time. I'm luck that I can take off the time that I do and as a contracted artist no work means no pay.

[wingman]

Re: My dream...

You are right...

Sorry! Mea culpa, etc.

As mentioned elsewhere I, at least, do get too serious sometimes...

Neal

[fenceliner01]

Re: My dream...

She's SO CUTE!!!

thanks Dasher! I showed her your picture in the program and she says "ARF, ARF!"