Bear Cave News?

[speeddemon]

Re: Bear Cave News?

You geek,

And I love you too, John.

You sound as though you didn't like Mr. Doody......Perhaps Brother Don was onto something when he taxiied into the back of his car?

[MRussell]

Re: Bear Cave News?

Gosh, John, nobody on this board respects you more than I, but that sounds pretty harsh. I think a lot of us "get it," but I hope you can forgive us for wanting to see it again... esp those of us who missed some of the great moments you mentioned. For example, I saw the beginnings of the Seven Wars when I was 11-13 years old, but I didn't get to see the end, and I would kill to see something similar now that I'm old enough to REALLY appreciate it.

I think you were addressing both the talent and spirit of the Unlimited pilots, and I know better than to agree/disagree with you on any of it. And you are right that Tiger, Darryl, and Lyle brought a gravelly spirit to the races that cannot be bought. As the racer, you just have it or you don't.

Having said that, I hope you can understand that moments like you described are what the fans LIVE for at Reno, and we absolutely are/were often aware (in fact we make it a point to find out...) what the back-stories are behind each aircraft and each face. It is not lost on us at all... but forgive us for wanting to relive it. Here's to hoping there are more "wars" to come. Your post best illustrates the reason I say what I say about Red Bull.

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Bear Cave News?

Gosh, John, nobody on this board respects you more than I, but that sounds pretty harsh. I think a lot of us "get it," but I hope you can forgive us for wanting to see it again...

Matt,

I wrote 99.9 percent of the fans that go to Reno, I would say that just by coming to Wayne's or Scotty's board, most would move into that .1 percent that want to know more and be informed. A true fan. However something was posted earlier that put me through the stratosphere and on the way back down I deleted the original, took a chill pill, and rewrote it more PC, the first one was great, the second one is PC. I am not hitting on you for wanting to see more, I was beating on someone else for forgetting what they saw and taking it for granted. Right or wrong people have died, lives have changed for that piece of ?? Reno calls a trophy with a pitance for a check.

Your post best illustrates the reason I say what I say about Red Bull.

I agree, Red Bull doesn't

[speeddemon]

Re: Bear Cave News?

Gosh, John, nobody on this board respects you more than I, but that sounds pretty harsh. I think a lot of us "get it," but I hope you can forgive us for wanting to see it again... esp those of us who missed some of the great moments you mentioned. For example, I saw the beginnings of the Seven Wars when I was 11-13 years old, but I didn't get to see the end, and I would kill to see something similar now that I'm old enough to REALLY appreciate it.

I think you were addressing both the talent and spirit of the Unlimited pilots, and I know better than to agree/disagree with you on any of it. And you are right that Tiger, Darryl, and Lyle brought a gravelly spirit to the races that cannot be bought. As the racer, you just have it or you don't.

Having said that, I hope you can understand that moments like you described are what the fans LIVE for at Reno, and we absolutely are/were often aware (in fact we make it a point to find out...) what the back-stories are behind each aircraft and each face. It is not lost on us at all... but forgive us for wanting to relive it. Here's to hoping there are more "wars" to come. Your post best illustrates the reason I say what I say about Red Bull.

As John and I have lamented on here before about....it was a different time back then. To call them the good old days sounds cliche', but they really were. Nothing against what we see today...but the serious racing during the mid 1970's was a world apart from what we have now. It may be faster today...it may be more hi-tech. Hell, it may even be safer. But the 'breed' and the machines just had a different feel and attitude to them. It'll never quite be the same.

["Race" Driver]

Re: Bear Cave News?

As John and I have lamented on here before about....it was a different time back then. To call them the good old days sounds cliche', but they really were. Nothing against what we see today...but the serious racing during the mid 1970's was a world apart from what we have now. It may be faster today...it may be more hi-tech. Hell, it may even be safer. But the 'breed' and the machines just had a different feel and attitude to them. It'll never quite be the same.

Amen to that!!!

[wyhdah]

Re: Bear Cave News?

I'm sure Roscoe Turner would have said the same about the era your are lamenting.

[speeddemon]

Re: Bear Cave News?

I'm sure Roscoe Turner would have said the same about the era your are lamenting.

I would give anything to be able to travel back in time and see the Thompson races from the late 1930's in person--in living color. They weren't close, and they really weren't competitive from a 'racing' standpoint. But the innovation and the 'feel'...the 'desparation', if you will, was amazing.

[David E. Wells]

Re: Bear Cave News?

The PrimeTime Red Bull story, reported by none other than Charlie Gibson implied the Red Bull Competition was the 1st time anyone even TRIED to Race Airplanes! I contend that RARA, while well meaning, lacks a certain amount of Creativity in promoting the NCAR. Many "Locals" who are interested in the Event are non-paying Volunteers, others GET OUTTA TOWN when the NCAR comes to town. The rising costs of attendance for entrants and fans are unpopular, the attrition of unlimited equipment, National media attention that only reports Warbird Disasters, and the lack of Value-Added incentives keep the purses low and sponsors away. ...AND WE STILL KEEP COMIN'!
...I would like to see something like a "Fan-School" in conjunction with the PRS, for paying Fans to get to see the courses, learn the rules, interact somewhat with the "Student's" required trials, and socialise.
...Racing that is Graded by Popular Vote...Lefty never went that FAST, but he was EVERYBODY'S FAVORITE, as is the Tigercat now...Feel Free to Name Your Own! MAYBE Make a bet?
...Some kind of Forum, like NASCAR, with Pilots, Owners, and Crew Chiefs fielding Fans Questions, they Don't have to tell the Truth...it would be nice to have a little Face-To-Face with Our Heroes...
...I GOTTA GO, my finger's tired...D

[sierra fox]

Re: Bear Cave News?

John or Speed,

What year at Mojave was it where Lyle and Darryl were at war around the pylon's? I have Super8mm footage from a race that was particularly frightening. There were a couple passes where Lyle flew way inside the last pylon before home stretch (between pylon 7 and 8 perhaps???) and made a couple really wild adjustmensts to get back outside the marker.

We camped out just inside the line of flight between the last two pylons (man...are those days gone) and a couple times we thought Darryl (who else?) dragged his wing in the sage and by the looks of the film (this was before video)....he did I'm sure there were many battles between the two, just thought one of you "geeks" may recall a similar experience.

I'd have to guess it was between 75 and 79? I'm quite sure there are more details i could provide but i was only 12 at the time. I do know that Darryl was flying American Jet.

Anthony

[speeddemon]

Re: Bear Cave News?

The PrimeTime Red Bull story, reported by none other than Charlie Gibson implied the Red Bull Competition was the 1st time anyone even TRIED to Race Airplanes! I contend that RARA, while well meaning, lacks a certain amount of Creativity in promoting the NCAR. Many "Locals" who are interested in the Event are non-paying Volunteers, others GET OUTTA TOWN when the NCAR comes to town. The rising costs of attendance for entrants and fans are unpopular, the attrition of unlimited equipment, National media attention that only reports Warbird Disasters, and the lack of Value-Added incentives keep the purses low and sponsors away. ...AND WE STILL KEEP COMIN'!
...I would like to see something like a "Fan-School" in conjunction with the PRS, for paying Fans to get to see the courses, learn the rules, interact somewhat with the "Student's" required trials, and socialise.
...Racing that is Graded by Popular Vote...Lefty never went that FAST, but he was EVERYBODY'S FAVORITE, as is the Tigercat now...Feel Free to Name Your Own! MAYBE Make a bet?
...Some kind of Forum, like NASCAR, with Pilots, Owners, and Crew Chiefs fielding Fans Questions, they Don't have to tell the Truth...it would be nice to have a little Face-To-Face with Our Heroes...
...I GOTTA GO, my finger's tired...D

Many moons ago, I was on the NAG Board of Directors. I got into a big discussion with the other members about increasing NAG's prominance in the airshow world, and about increasing membership/fan base. I came to the table with all sorts of ideas to 'grow' in the public eye. What I was met with was like trying to lead a stubborn horse to water. The other members said that they were perfectly happy with it being a little 'fan club', and that it was just easier this way--they got the credentials they were looking for with minimal input....and really weren't interested in growing NAG into something else.

I didn't seek re-election.

[sierra fox]

Re: Bear Cave News?

The PrimeTime Red Bull story, reported by none other than Charlie Gibson implied the Red Bull Competition was the 1st time anyone even TRIED to Race Airplanes! I contend that RARA, while well meaning, lacks a certain amount of Creativity in promoting the NCAR. Many "Locals" who are interested in the Event are non-paying Volunteers, others GET OUTTA TOWN when the NCAR comes to town. The rising costs of attendance for entrants and fans are unpopular, the attrition of unlimited equipment, National media attention that only reports Warbird Disasters, and the lack of Value-Added incentives keep the purses low and sponsors away. ...AND WE STILL KEEP COMIN'!
...I would like to see something like a "Fan-School" in conjunction with the PRS, for paying Fans to get to see the courses, learn the rules, interact somewhat with the "Student's" required trials, and socialise.
...Racing that is Graded by Popular Vote...Lefty never went that FAST, but he was EVERYBODY'S FAVORITE, as is the Tigercat now...Feel Free to Name Your Own! MAYBE Make a bet?
...Some kind of Forum, like NASCAR, with Pilots, Owners, and Crew Chiefs fielding Fans Questions, they Don't have to tell the Truth...it would be nice to have a little Face-To-Face with Our Heroes...
...I GOTTA GO, my finger's tired...D

David, THAT is such a great proposal. Those of us that love to watch the races and have been following for a few years from the fence or the grandstands dont get the "real" story except after the fact. I, for one, would be very interested and would have to bet that the two racing boards would benefit as well and us armchair racers could ask more pertinent questions!

Anthony

[speeddemon]

Re: Bear Cave News?

John or Speed,

What year at Mojave was it where Lyle and Darryl were at war around the pylon's? I have Super8mm footage from a race that was particularly frightening. There were a couple passes where Lyle flew way inside the last pylon before home stretch (between pylon 7 and 8 perhaps???) and made a couple really wild adjustmensts to get back outside the marker.

We camped out just inside the line of flight between the last two pylons (man...are those days gone) and a couple times we thought Darryl (who else?) dragged his wing in the sage and by the looks of the film (this was before video)....he did I'm sure there were many battles between the two, just thought one of you "geeks" may recall a similar experience.

I'd have to guess it was between 75 and 79? I'm quite sure there are more details i could provide but i was only 12 at the time. I do know that Darryl was flying American Jet.

Anthony

That would have been 1975. And for the great battle between Darryl and Lyle, it was the good Doctor who came away with the win--in spite of his flying technique, which I'm sure John will agree, was questionable at best.

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Bear Cave News?

That would have been 1975. And for the great battle between Darryl and Lyle, it was the good Doctor who came away with the win--in spite of his flying technique, which I'm sure John will agree, was questionable at best.

The errattic flying that you mention was Cliff Cummins, he went off course about four times during that race when for the first time ever the Bearcats were running at their best and the Merlin held it's own signalling the not so distant to come years of Jeannie. That was a "Z" motor at that time that swung the hinges of fait to the "hot water toilets" for a while. Lyle and Darryl were on rails almost in formation during the race, there was no room for mistakes, had he been inside on that one he would have had to take the cut.

[Bob]

Re: Bear Cave News?

I would give anything to be able to travel back in time and see the Thompson races from the late 1930's in person--in living color. They weren't close, and they really weren't competitive from a 'racing' standpoint. But the innovation and the 'feel'...the 'desparation', if you will, was amazing.

Wasnt the world black and white back then? Didnt they start coloring it in the 50's so color TV would catch on?

[ShermB]

Re: Bear Cave News?


" I came to the table with all sorts of ideas to 'grow' in the public eye. What I was met with was like trying to lead a stubborn horse to water. The other members said that they were perfectly happy with it......."


Hey Speedy,
Sorry you didn't get it acroos, but that was before my time, and with a different BOD. How about sending me your ideas and let's see what can be done?
Betty Sherman, Treasurer
National Air racing Group