Critical Mass - Blind Man's Bluff = SPLIT THREAD

[Double ugly]

Re: Critical Mass - Blind Man's Bluff = SPLIT THREAD

Larry, lunch again on Wednesday?
John

[Ken Dwelle]

Re: Critical Mass - Blind Man's Bluff = SPLIT THREAD

As a follow on to Larry's "Canopy Caper" I have attached some photos I took this afternoon. The first is the BMB/ early CMass canopy, the second is the later CMass canopy, and the rest show the difference between the Stock tail and the CMass tail.

[luscombe]

Re: Critical Mass - Blind Man's Bluff = SPLIT THREAD

BLuffman and ken please keep the good things comming this is wonderful stuff and if you could keep the photos of the return to stock comming ken that would be awsome to to see the work needed to bring it back
keep up the good work
regards from australia

layton

[Paynts]

Re: Critical Mass - Blind Man's Bluff = SPLIT THREAD

Zeke. Your post Regarding BMB, and your comment about the Tempests being restored but they can't find Centaurus engines. In 1998 An Englishman named Nick Grace came to see me, and was interested in my 3350 engine mounts. He had three Tempests and he wanted to put 3350s on two of them and he was trying to rebuild a Napier Sabier H-24 engine for the other one. I sold him two unwelded 3350 mount kits and two 3350 engines. They were shipped to him, but shortly thereafter Nick was killed in an auto accident. He also had a couple of Spitfires, one coverted to a two seater. His wife, Caroline, I think her name was eventially sold or donated the aircraft. I never heard anything about what happened to the engines and motor mounts. I wonder if the Tempests you mentioned are the ones Nick had. Larry Burton

What a great site this is! Mr Burton or anyone else, would you happen to know if there is a running Napier Sabre engine anywhere in the world? I have seen Caroline Grace display her Spitfire many times over here in the U.K but I didn't know her husband had owned tempests please keep up the stories on this thread

[Ken Dwelle]

Re: Critical Mass - Blind Man's Bluff = SPLIT THREAD

Thanks Layton-

Here is what Tommy (TJ) and I did at lunch yesterday. We spread all of the primary surface control tubes on the hangar floor and surveyed and photographed them in preparation for stripping and painting. I spent a couple of hours last night comparing part numbers to those in the spares manual. The rudder and aileron system make sense, but many of the elevator numbers have Hawker part numbers but are NOT in the spares book . They start with 2 and nearly all of the Sea Fury numbers start with 1. This T.Mk20 was purchased back by Hawker and converted to target tug configuration prior to going to Germany. I have read that Hawker removed the rear cockpit controls at this time but can't confirm. I am thinking that the odd numbers have somrthing to do with that. I'm sure glad there are a couple of other T.20's at Sanders nearby that we can look at!

-Ken

[luscombe]

Re: Critical Mass - Blind Man's Bluff = SPLIT THREAD

[QUOTE=Ken Dwelle]Thanks Layton-

Here is what Tommy (TJ) and I did at lunch yesterday. We spread all of the primary surface control tubes on the hangar floor and surveyed and photographed them in preparation for stripping and painting. I spent a couple of hours last night comparing part numbers to those in the spares manual. The rudder and aileron system make sense, but many of the elevator numbers have Hawker part numbers but are NOT in the spares book . They start with 2 and nearly all of the Sea Fury numbers start with 1. This T.Mk20 was purchased back by Hawker and converted to target tug configuration prior to going to Germany. I have read that Hawker removed the rear cockpit controls at this time but can't confirm. I am thinking that the odd numbers have somrthing to do with that. I'm sure glad there are a couple of other T.20's at Sanders nearby that we can look at!
Thanks for all that Ken its great could the 2 number have anything to do with it heing possibly seafury as opposed to fury or as you say the conversion to target tug before being shipped to Germany
keep up the good work and keep the pics and commentary comming please loving it all
regards
from the land down under
layton

[bluffman]

Re: Critical Mass - Blind Man's Bluff = SPLIT THREAD

PAYNTS: I have photos of the Tempests Nick Grace had somewhere among my stuff. Don't know where to start looking though. Nick told me that there as a runnable Napier- Sabre in the U.K. but that was 20 years ago. He had almost enough pieces to assemble one for one of the Tempests. He had also gave me a great cut-away drawing of th N-S, probably 18 inches by 40 inches or so. I loaned it to an old friend who was a retired General Motors engineer to study, but unfortunately he passed away, and the drawing was never recovered.

Ken wasn't Dale Clarke's "Nothin Special" a converted "tug"? I would think that Dennis or Brian Sanders would know about those strange part numbers. When I was doing BMB, I had some questions that I couldn't get answers for, and I called Hawker and got what I was looking for, but again, that was 20 years ago, maybe too much time has passed to make that connection now. Someone sent me a web site recently about the "tugs", now that I think about it I an not so sure that the mods were done at Hawker. I will see if I saved any of that info. Larry

[number17fan]

Re: Critical Mass - Blind Man's Bluff = SPLIT THREAD

Bluffman
I don't want to sidetrack the thread, but what are the little "eyebrows" on Dancing Queens cheek cowls?

Enjoying the history!!!!

[Double ugly]

Re: Critical Mass - Blind Man's Bluff = SPLIT THREAD

Are you talking about the "Gurney Bubbles" for the spark plugs?
john

[number17fan]

Re: Critical Mass - Blind Man's Bluff = SPLIT THREAD

Those must be the biggest spark plugs ever to stick up that much.
I was thinking some kind of vortex generator?

[Double ugly]

Re: Critical Mass - Blind Man's Bluff = SPLIT THREAD

There is an easy fix. Smaller plugs and removing the goofy bubbles which will happen over the winter.
John

[bluffman]

Re: Critical Mass - Blind Man's Bluff = SPLIT THREAD

Number 17: Those bubbles on Dancing Queen are for the spark plug wires. Still running the shielded aircraft plugs, will convert to automotive for next year.

I hope everyone caught Jason's video of Unlimited Heat 3A Gold! Video and sound was great. Turned it up real loud and had the walls shaking listening to that 3350 humming along. Made my hair stand on end and gave me "goose bumps", and sure brought back lots of memories. Made me real happy that I didn't listen to Frank and the others some 20 years ago and made a motor mount to adapt the 3350 to the Sea Fury. I reckon somebody else would have done it eventually, but since I was not encumbered by a degree, hard headed, and determined, "We Got Er Done".

Larry

[Paynts]

Re: Critical Mass - Blind Man's Bluff = SPLIT THREAD

bluffman I know that the Royal Navy Fleet Air Arm run a Tempest but its got the centaurus engine in it.
I don't think there is a working sabre anywhere,
however check this link out http://project-napier-heston.com/

a possible 500 mph racer in 1938!!!!

I'm going to put this up as a thread because the picture so reminds me of P 51s like voodoo

[number17fan]

Re: Critical Mass - Blind Man's Bluff = SPLIT THREAD

Thanks for the answer!
More history please!!

[bluffman]

Re: Critical Mass - Blind Man's Bluff = SPLIT THREAD

While continuing to create BMB I wanted to get some close air work for our prospective pilots. I contacted some local T- 6 owner/ pilots and we came to an agreement with Chuck Bivenour, Lou Kalish, and Carl Schmeider,( I hope I have spelled their names right). Sheila O'Grady, Joanne Osterud, and possibly Bill Norton, would go out north-east of Scottsdale Airport with the guys and out there someplace were some abandoned cars and other " landmarks" that they could use as impromptu "pylons" and buzz around and similate what it would be like to race at Reno. The T- 6 guys really ran them through the proverbial wringer. When the "students" came taxiing back to the Levolor hangar and climbed out they sure looked like "they had been rode hard and put away wet!" They did some formation flying also which was a bit nerve wracking for the "students". Bivenour was an ex-Navy pilot who flew Panthers and Cougars, and maybe some navy prop planes as well, can't remember. He was very strict, as you can imagine. He would play an even bigger part later, as he was the first one to fire up BMB. I will cover that later, it involved a lot of "Drama".
Larry