John Penney

[Randy Haskin]

Re: John Penney

John,
I'm sorry, but what do you mean with "high key"?
Thank you

I'm not Mr Penney, obviously, but I'll throw an answer out there.

High Key describes a position above the airfield used prior to executing an engine-out landing. Generally it is a position directly overhead the airfield at relatively high altitude (10K is what they use in the F-16), such that the pilot can make a spiraling descent to land.

Using High Key keeps the airplane close to the airfield and is safer than going out for a long straight-in approach when engine-out.

[dvddude]

Re: John Penney

I'm not Mr Penney, obviously, but I'll throw an answer out there.

High Key describes a position above the airfield used prior to executing an engine-out landing. Generally it is a position directly overhead the airfield at relatively high altitude (10K is what they use in the F-16), such that the pilot can make a spiraling descent to land.

Using High Key keeps the airplane close to the airfield and is safer than going out for a long straight-in approach when engine-out.

Randy is correct. And also to add to it, the reason it is safer than a straight-in is because you are always within glide range of concrete and it's much easier to assess your energy state. In high performance jets that are capable of dead-stick landings (some aren't), you always want to be in a position where making concrete is never compromised. If you do a straight-in landing, you are away some distance from the runway. If you misjudge your energy state on a straight-in, it's a lot harder to get back energy when you are low on it, versus just turning base leg sooner in a flame-out type overhead pattern. When you practice flame-out patterns in jets, you have specific energy parameters that must be met in various parts of the pattern. By assessing your energy state at these various points which you already know, you can easily tell whether you are high or low in total energy state and can thus make the runway or not. This will dicate when you start your turn to base, how you do it, and depending on the type of airplane, possibly the configuration you use. There are various tricks you can use to either minimize energy loss or increase it depending on what you need. Even though we are talking jets here, the principles are identical to a loss of power in a recip plane like Rare Bear, I'm sure. Maybe Mr. Penney can pipe in here to verify that. As I recall, I believe he flew A-7's in the Air Force and was a glider guru at one time, holding at least one world record in gliders. That would tend to make me believe that he is acutely aware of energy states and how to accomplish dead-stick landings or flame-out patterns as they're called in high performance jets.

[Randy Haskin]

Re: John Penney

Maybe Mr. Penney can pipe in here to verify that. As I recall, I believe he flew A-7's in the Air Force and was a glider guru at one time, holding at least one world record in gliders. That would tend to make me believe that he is acutely aware of energy states and how to accomplish dead-stick landings or flame-out patterns as they're called in high performance jets.

I wasn't implying that Penney didn't know what he was doing...obviously he does.

My joke was just playing on the fact that JC used to fly Phantoms for the Reno ANG, and the vast, vast majority of twin-engine fighter guys don't even know the word "High Key" much less understand how to perform a flameout pattern. In most twin engine pointy-nosed jets, a dual engine flameout is very rare, AND in jets with purely hydraulic flight controls the hydraulic pressure provided by windmilling engines isn't enough to keep the flight controls working on landing. In other words, there's no such thing as a deadstick landing in those airplanes (T-38 and F-15 are what I'm referring to specifically, but the F-4 is the same). As such, there's no need to train for an emergency procedure that you won't execute.

I'm one of those guys -- every jet I've flown since the first day of USAF pilot training have been twins, so I literally have never trained to perform an SFO even once! If it weren't for me being a GA pilot as well, I'd also have no idea what high key was.

JC has a lot of experience with many other types of high performance pistons and jets, so naturally he understands it -- as evidenced by his execution during the real-world emergency.

[taglialavore]

Re: John Penney

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!! VERY CLEAR EXPLANATION, BOTH ARE VERY KIND PEOPLE.

[ebutner]

Re: John Penney

Great info guys... You esplained it well.

["Bear" Driver]

Re: John Penney

Guys,

I really appreciate all the attention the "Bear" (and I), have received surrounding the events of Sunday afternoon, on this thread. As of late, however, I have heard that Mike Brown's emergency was one heck of a lot more serious than anything I had to deal with. Apparently, his blown cylinder caused a fire in the accessory section, and during his pullup he shut his engine off, not just retarded to idle like the majority of our emergency landings develop, that still gives us some power to make it to the runway.

You see, I had the luxury of waiting till the right time to turn off the ignition key. He didn't.

As I've said before, Mike Brown is a great competitor and a great pilot. Hats off to Mike for his skillful handling of a dire emergency. And...don't forget Bobby Button!

JCP

[supercub]

Re: John Penney

Hats off to all you that handle engine out emergencies ro for that matter any emergency. I've been a flight instructor for 35 years or so. I've never had an engine failure....and dont want one. Have had three time where they got me back to the airport, but no further, making metal after that. We train and train, but till the real thing, well, like I said.......good job to you all.
Brian

[SteveB]

Re: John Penney

What single engine racer at Reno has ever had a feathering option?

The only racer I know of that had a prop feathering system was Miss Ashley II.

[JCP]

Re: John Penney

Spud Lag...Race 17 P-40 had/has a full feather option.

[bigguyplanes]

Re: John Penney

Hi John,this is off topic,but I met you in the early 90's at a R/C trade show ,swap meet in Sea Tac area. We were both looking at a partially built 1/5 th scale F8F. I have often wondered if you are into R/C.I fly 2 big F8F models, one in Royal Thai colors and the other as the yellow"Bettle Bomb ". Ive been following you and the "Bear"since the beginning,and finally made it to Reno this year. Talked to Dave on friday,who was very nice,would have liked to talk to you,but didnt want to bother you,as you had enough on your mind .Maybe next year.
Congrats on the race to you and your crew.It was one of the best displays of airmanship I have seen in 45 years of aviation.
" aint no sound,like big and round"..........Allen

To start off, thanks to all the well wishers out there and for the support for the "Rare Bear" Air Racing Team by those fans who love the plane as much as all our team members do. And our hearts go out to the families and friends of our racers tragically lost this year.

This year was one of tremendous challenge. After Mr. Rod Lewis, owner of Lewis Energy Group became the new owner of the "Bear" he began to assemble the new team under the leadership of Dave Cornell, a wizard when it comes to making racing planes go fast. Virtually all of his team mechanics are those who joined the team several years ago so there was a wealth of talent and experience from which to draw. Rod invited me to drive for the team soon after Dave assembled his crew. Needless to say, I was thrilled to be offered the privilege to come back with this great team.

Up until PRS, the plane was torn down to bare bones (you may have seen some of the pics on this site). Every system and bit of structure was inspected and/or overhauled and the whole airframe X-rayed. Significant repairs were required as a result of unknown, sometimes major, discrepancies since the airplane's original buildup that started in 1968. Anyway, the buildup started with mounting, during PRS, of an engine bought from Tom Dwelle. That was less than 3 months ago. The plane flew for the first time on September 2nd.

The first time we put any power to the beast, it argued with us and we had to go out and qualify on Tuesday at, believe it or not, less than rated takeoff power for the 3350. Performance was an anemic 452.something. We wrestled with power through our first heat on Saturday, limited on power and being passed by Tiger, then....Oh-my-God....by Dreadnought!!!

Two test flights on Sunday still left some questions unanswered, but we had improved. So, we were still flight testing on the start of Sunday's Gold Race. To set the record straight, we did NOT use nitrous.

On the start of the race we accelerated past Matt and I was able to move in on Mike's wing. That man is a fierce competitor, a great pilot, and flies one of the smoothest lines I've seen. After all, I got to see it for a whole lap. Don't know what September's problem was, but I know that plane can go faster than it was going when we passed him on the second lap, and was surprised to hear the the lead we opened up.

On the third lap, the engine ran rough for several seconds, as unknown to me, some "aerodynamic filler" had broken off the cowling right side and was ingested by the engine. A picture on this site shows a trail of white "stuff" trailing the bear for several hundred yards. The "Bear" must have chewed it up and spit it out, because after retarding power to see if we were OK, it ran smooth again, but we had smoke in the cockpit. It took half a lap, flown high, to get confirmation from Dave that we had no smoke trailing the aircraft. The cockpit smoke cleared after two more laps and power came up again, but not all the way. We held a stable reduced setting with our lead to the flag.

After pulling up for the cooldown, it became apparent that the throttle was jammed and I couldn't get it back below 45" MAP. Pulled the rpm back to 2400, declared an emergency and Steve was on my wing before I knew it. That guy is some kind of a safety pilot, and he asked the right questions at the right time to help me with the forced landing plan. Dave and I also discussed the engine shutdown plan to keep from grenading the engine. Race control held 232 on runway 32 while they landed the other (healthy) racers on runway 26...which gave me a spot-of-bother as I was now down to 20 gallons of gas. They finally let 232 cross 26, and I set up for the deadstick.

At 10,500 feet the ignition key was turned off and mixture pulled to cutoff. It gets really quiet. That was on a high downwind to the high key so I could do a complete 360 to the downwind for the deadstick. Steve was right there. I wanted to stay fairly close to the runway as we had high winds out of the west. Initial aimpoint was 1/3 down the runway, but when landing was assured, I brought the prop rpm up to bring the aimpoint back a little. Touchdown was about 1500 to 2000 feet down the runway, and surprised myself with one of my better touchdowns of the week! Fire/Rescue was on the scene immediatley.

I can't say enough about how cool Steve Hinton and Dave Cornell were. It was reassuring to know Steve and Dave were right there for whatever I needed. There's no placating at all when I say it was a team effort getting the "Bear" safely to the runway.

And, I can't say enough about the incredible commitment, dedication and sacrifice of our crew who gave up time from their jobs and families to groom and condition the "Bear" for our victory. The effort was an awesome thing to behold.

Stay tuned for more developments on the "Bear" under the ownership of Mr. Rod Lewis, and leadership of Dave Cornell.

John Penney, "Race 77"[/QUOTE]

["Bear" Driver]

Re: John Penney

[QUOTE=bigguyplanes]Hi John,this is off topic,but I met you in the early 90's at a R/C trade show ,swap meet in Sea Tac area. We were both looking at a partially built 1/5 th scale F8F. I have often wondered if you are into R/C.I fly 2 big F8F models, one in Royal Thai colors and the other as the yellow"Bettle Bomb ". Ive been following you and the "Bear"since the beginning,and finally made it to Reno this year. Talked to Dave on friday,who was very nice,would have liked to talk to you,but didnt want to bother you,as you had enough on your mind .Maybe next year.
Congrats on the race to you and your crew.It was one of the best displays of airmanship I have seen in 45 years of aviation.
" aint no sound,like big and round"..........Allen

Hello Allen,

Thanks for your nice note. Yes, R/C modeling is a lot of fun. Been C/L'ing, F/F'ing and R/C'ing since the days of single channel and escapements in the 50s. Hope to have more time to enjoy it more someday. BTW, Brian Sanders is another racer who is an avid R/C'er.

Please don't ever hesitate to say "Hi" when you're around our pit. Unless we're seriously occupied, we always want to share the experience with our "Bear" fans...you're the ones who make it possible for us to do what we do. Without no fans...there ain't no racin'! (said with a mild southern drawl...).

Again, thanks, and come again next year to see the "Bear" team race to win.

John Penney

[Frank C.]

Re: John Penney

Mr. Penney,

I just wanted to tell you that you are great stick and true professional! You did a great job bringing that big old Bear back to Mother Earth. Mr. Hinton is in the same category. Cheers to you and your fellow race pilots. You all have *alls Of Iron! My son flies helicopters and had to make an emergency autorotation. Said he tried to stay calm but it was very tough, I am sure he could learn alot from you and Mr. Hinton about staying calm and taking care of business! My son has been going to the Races since he was 7 yrs. old. John Engh from the Risky Business crew let my son sit in Risky and he was hooked on flying. He just recently got his fixed wing rating. Sorry to be so long-winded. Take care.

Frank Caruso

[thunderstangfan]

Re: John Penney

all of the landings in the bear look like an adventure, im sure its really fun in a cross wind. we should get tiger involved in this conversation, i bet he could tell some fun stories of dead stick landings.