Hope this is OK

[supercub]

I've waited for a few weeks to ask this question. I along with many of you witnessed the tragedies at Reno this year, and my heart goes out to the families and loved one.

I have a question regarding the L-39 accident. I happened to be looking right at Mr Morehouse's L-39 at the time of the accident....and obviously it happened very fast. In my mind, once inverted, it looked like for a split second, he was actually trying to push the nose "skyward". I'm curious if anyone else saw it this way. I ask this not to bring anymore attention to this , but if he was pushing, then I believe he did a great job of trying to control his aircraft to the end. He must have been a very savvy pilot to think and react that fast. I praise his pilot skills.

I hope this posting doesn't offend anyone, if so, my apologies, and if the moderator deems it necessary to delete, I'll certainly understand.
Brian

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Hope this is OK

I hope this posting doesn't offend anyone, if so, my apologies, and if the moderator deems it necessary to delete, I'll certainly understand.

Brian,

I don't think we need to delete it.. These guys are good... realllll good.. If you look at the pix of Gerry Beck right after he's flipped at Oshkosh, it truly looks like he's trying very hard to fly out of it.. There's vapor coming off the prop tips and the elevator is FULL nose up (inverted nose up) just too damn bad that neither guy had enough in the bank of whatever God wants in these situations to make it all come out good...

Let's just pray that we don't have any more of this!

Blue Skies..

[wolfee]

Re: Hope this is OK

I will ask this of anyone that posts on this thread to please be very carefull of how you reply and word your post. This is a very sensitive subject. Please lets all be respectfull of the pilot, his family, and friends.


thank you
Wolfee

[wyhdah]

Re: Hope this is OK

I'm sure there are some racers better than others but they are all good pilots. Sometimes the situation outweights the talent in an aircraft. That's what makes them demanding and why I love being a pilot; always fighting to stay ahead of the flight situation to the end. All Pilots will.

[Skyracer]

Re: Hope this is OK

Please lets all be respectfull of the pilot, his family, and friends.

And those who witnessed this tragedy and are still coming to grips with it.

Thank you,

[JET1]

personally...

[QUOTE=wolfee]I will ask this of anyone that posts on this thread to please be very carefull of how you reply and word your post. This is a very sensitive subject. Please lets all be respectfull of the pilot, his family, and friends.
please delete this...arm chair quarterbacking is never any good - in the end the outcome of the game never changes.

[wyhdah]

Re: Hope this is OK

I don't consider this arm chair quarterbacking. If you are a pilot then I am sure you have read several crash reports. We all do, especially when it happens to good pilots, it helps us to keep it from happening to us.

It saved my bacon just this summer. Bizjet with wind shear detection was landing number one and I was number two, I was less than a mile out when number one radioed the tower that there was a 17 knot shear warning .5 off the numbers. Had I not read the reports and understood shear I would have been at normal over the fence numbers; that shear would have put me within two knots of stall at 500 feet agl. Not good. I cannot tell you how many times crash reports have helped me stay out of wing tip vortices. I am curious how such light planes, even though at high speeds, can created enough vortices on each other as to not be overcome by control input. It may save a life and it could be mine.

[aircooled]

Re: personally...

please delete this...arm chair quarterbacking is never any good - in the end the outcome of the game never changes.

Forgive me, but this seems very narrow minded to me. So you believe we should get rid of the NTSB (all they do is "arm chair quarterback").

Why should we talk about such things? Because you learn far more from a mistake than you do a success. It is now very clear to everyone that there is a very real potential danger from the cause even with these small jets. (I will refrain from stating the pretty obvious likely cause so as to avoid conjecture, but no matter what the cause is, the danger is still there)

Do I think the incident was a mistake? No. But as with almost anything (driving a car for example) you generally have a LOT of control over the danger involved with the situation. Certainly the safest thing to do is not race, but as stated many times before, this is the risk they take, and I have to say I highly respect there choice if for nothing else they may be the last of breed who is actually willing to take such risks (in this very risk adverse "who is at fault" society).

Certainly we need to respect those involved, I don't think anyone will willingly disrespect them, but to not talk about it only buries something that everyone is likely feeling, and discussing such things helps everyone.

And just to add perspective, I did witness Ms. Ashley right in front of me, so I know how that feels. My father was killed in an experimental crash, and I was VERY interested the circumstances and observations surrounding that, so I know how that feels.

Delete away, if you must...

...censorship is the blood that flows through the veins of tyranny...

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Hope this is OK

I don't consider this arm chair quarterbacking. If you are a pilot then I am sure you have read several crash reports. We all do, especially when it happens to good pilots, it helps us to keep it from happening to us.

And this is exactly why I've been criticized in the past for burying threads of this sort. The family and friends all know as much or more of what happened than as we now do... This thread is in no way being critical of anyone.

In reality, I found the friends of Gerry Beck to be quite forthright and matter-of-fact about his accident. As has been said to me by one pilot here in private, basically "this is what we do" in order to figure out what went wrong and keep from doing it again...

So... unless some of you really are feeling badly about this being discussed at all, I feel, leaving it go on for now is not bad thing..

Let's stay out of too deep of speculation though, OK?

Keep it constructive.. even the best make mistakes, if discussions such as this one keep one's head on a swivel.. It's not a bad thing at all..

Wayne

[Skyracer]

Re: personally...

Certainly we need to respect those involved, I don't think anyone will willingly disrespect them, but to not talk about it only buries something that everyone is likely feeling, and discussing such things helps everyone.

BRAVO!

Let's stay out of too deep of speculation though, OK?

Keep it constructive...even the best make mistakes.

Well stated Wayne. Now, everyone, take time to re-read (and rethink) your posts before you push the "Submit Reply" button.

[JET1]

Re: personally...

\Forgive me, but this seems very narrow minded to me. So you believe we should get rid of the NTSB

the NTSB deals in fact visual reference materials and technological analysis of those facts and materials to come to a concensus (sometimes right sometimes wrong( of how things occured. I was one of the first on the scene as the firetrucks arrived...enough said. Ill just ignore the rest of the posts on this thread. perhaps you all can discuss it after the preliminary NTSB report comes out. sorry to kick a beehive but then I really didnt kick it I was just trying to keep the bees all together and out of frenzy.

[wyhdah]

Re: Hope this is OK

I, personally, would rather hear eye witness accounts, "visual reference material" if you will, than the typically vague, generic, "pilot failed to maintain control during a wake turbulence episode", "failed to maintain situational awareness" , or even failure of a part the NTSB will report. AOPA Pilot is pretty good about giving the details beyond the NTSB in such accidents.

The fact is the NTSB will gather the majority of their information from the same people you are asking not to post. What is wrong with speculation if it is constuctive? It may just save a life.

Feel free to ignore this post.

[G. van Dyk]

Re: Hope this is OK

I, personally, would rather hear eye witness accounts, "visual reference material" if you will,...

I was also staring straight at Mr. Morehouse's airplane as he went through the unplanned manouver. As disturbing as it was to witness the event, the one thing that struck me, only seconds later I couldn't remember if he had rolled to the right or left. I would be an extremely poor witness of the tragedy, and the people I spoke with and overheard the rest of the day, with few exceptions would, I believe be equally poor witnesses, as the story wasn't the same between any of them. We need to take eyewitness accounts with a good deal of salt, and add or subtract weight depending on the witness's experience and credentials.

Gerry

[John H]

Re: Hope this is OK

I do appreciate these threads. What really is bothering me, is on another board repeated discussions on ancient accidents. There are several of these spectacular, decade old accidents available for viewing on You Tube. Every two- three months, somebody who is new to the scene finds it and asks if anybody's heard about it. So we are discussing the same thing several times a year. Gets old. I don't know how you would enforce not repeating the same thing every two months, I'm just voicing that I don't like it. Thankfully Miss Ashley or the Pond Racer crashes are not on You Tube or I'm sure that would pop up here every two months. I was there for Miss Ashley and it was pretty upsetting.

John

[David E. Wells]

Re: Hope this is OK

I said this before and I'll say it again: This is akin to DEATH BY CHOCOLATE...Brave People Playing Dangerous Games...D.