MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

[Matt Jackson]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

Thanks Bucky. Doesn't look like Darryl's plane has made much progress since the last time I saw it. Unfortunately, I think the B-29 debacle killed off any prospect of him finishing that plane.
"Awesome", appears to have taken a few steps backward since the last time I saw it in the early nineties as "Red Heat". It looked like a flyable racer. Fresh paint, prop hung, etc. Maybe Mr. Frost decided to dig a little deeper into it?

"Skip wouldn't fly it, what does that tell ya?"

Mr. Holm never flew it with the enlarged appanage either!

The plane was flown by Neil Anderson after the larger tail was put on it. He commented that the plane flew as fast as Dreadnought did on less HP . Neil went through a complete test program on the plane and was confident that it would do well from his previous Reno experiences. He said it indicated 5-10 MPH faster then Dreadnought at speed. He never had the chance to put it on the course however so we will probably never find out what it would do. Daryl Flew the plane and liked it. He said it was the fastest he had ever gone sideways before the installation of the T33 tail. Thats why he bought it in the first place from Joe Kasparoff. The problem with the plane as I see it is the wing air foil has a much lower critical mach number then the P51 or the Sea Fury. It becomes pitch unstable at high speed. I have witnessed that fact as I have flown Check Mate before Moore purchased and have witnessed it first hand at speed. Skip didn't like the plane because of the handling on the course with the short cut Aero Products propeller and the funky tail we had on it to begin with. When the Ham standard was installed with the larger T33 tail the handling issues were resolved according to Neil.

Matt J

[hm66sk]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

Thanks for the info Matt. My brother and I were dumbfounded watching her auger in. All we kept saying to each other was "I hope Neils allright!"

[John]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

Matt J. Interesting info on the Yak wing airfoil. Could the negative pitching moment of that Clark-Y type airfoil have anything to do with the adverse handling characteristics at high speed?

[Race5]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

Matt J. Interesting info on the Yak wing airfoil. Could the negative pitching moment of that Clark-Y type airfoil have anything to do with the adverse handling characteristics at high speed?

Absolutely! I think the Bearcat has a Clark-Y based airfoil, and that is why the leading edge extensions were tried.

[taglialavore]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

Did I miss anything? I believed the Bearcat has a NACA 230 series wing section & that the Clark Y was suitable for propeller´s sections.
Correct me please if not.
May be it has a relatively thick airfoil so a compressibility effect appears at lower speeds (trying to form shock wave ) than airplanes with thinner ones. So longitudinal oscillation develops and if you go on speeding this ends in "tuck under".

[Matt Jackson]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

The Bears wing is good to about 410-415 KTS indicated on the course. I have been there and seen it first hand. After that point the airplane becomes unstable. The Bears limit is not horsepower rather temperature and critical mach number on the airfoil. John Penny can explain the issue as well, probably much better then I. The Yak wing becomes unstable at a lower indicated around 380 KTS @ Reno. Again I have been there in Checkmate. You can confirm this with Smoot. He deals with the same issue every year. Maybe the larger tail like we put on Awesome might help in pitch. I know Neil said it went to 380 indicated just fine. The bottom line is to go any faster then they are going now will require a wing airfoil change or change in the course layout to allow lower G's. I have seen 535 true in the Bear straight line @ 10,000 Density altitude. The plane hunts up and down. The remedy was to grip the stick half way down so as not to over control and hang on. That was with the three blade prop. At the same time your hanging on you had to catch the knobs and switch nuts falling off the panel from the strange vibration that occurred at that speed. Again been there done that. Mustang has a higher mach number and therefore can go faster on course. Example Dago Red. I've seen 430 KTS coming down the shoot in Stiletto and was just becoming unstable. Problem is reliable horsepower. What you need is the BearCat with a Mustang wing and a Pilot with a Giant set of B___! There is not a lot of room left for going faster with these same aircraft. The trick is becoming how to make them live to finish. Its going to require a new wing and design to go much faster then we already are and the Clark Y isn't the answer by any means.

Matt J

[Randy Haskin]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

Matt -

What kind of IAS is the T-2 wing on your project postulated to comfortably go to?

[Matt Jackson]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

Dave Cornel had the aero numbers run on the T2 wing and it was about 20 knots higher then the P51 from what I recall. It might be a bit higher then that. The numbers from the aero guys indicated that the plane should be good for about 535 MPH on the course @ 3800 HP and 3 Gs and 560 MPH straight line for the 3K. Pretty impressive numbers. Time will tell. We are in hopes to have American Spirit up and running in a 18 months. Primary sponsor was at Sanders two days ago for a view of the project.

MJ

[dvddude]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

Thanks for the report, Mr. Jackson. Those are some pretty interesting figures. I didn't know that Mach crit on the Bear was lower than a Mustang. Which warbird airfoil out there has the highest Mach crit?

Also, as an aside, how did the Mach crit of Tsunami compare to the other comparable aircraft? Did the designer (was it Bruce Boland, I can't remember) design the airfoil with a high enough Mach crit to outclass the competition?

[Matt Jackson]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

For piston fighters the Mustang is one of the tops as well as the Sea Fury. Nasa has all the reports as a matter of record. They were called Naca reports back in the 40's. Pretty well documented which were the best. There are many air foils today superior to the airfoils of WWII. Just real expensive to package. The issue with Reno is you have to go 9 laps. To go 500 MPH plus it takes X horsepower minimum which consumes X fuel. X water meth for ADI and then there is the spay bars or boiler water. When your all done the plane has to be x in size to haul the weight and basically you end up with a 9000 LB plane minimum race weight, which puts you right up with a Mustang @ 9,000LBs Bearcat@ 10,000, Sea Fury @ 12-13000 LBS. The new designed planes are still going to be about the same weight with different wing air foils. So the war birds are still a pretty cost efficient way to go fast. Now if you shorten the race you can down size the plane and go as fast, but that wouldn't be Reno would it?

[Matt Jackson]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

Thanks for the report, Mr. Jackson. Those are some pretty interesting figures. I didn't know that Mach crit on the Bear was lower than a Mustang. Which warbird airfoil out there has the highest Mach crit?

Also, as an aside, how did the Mach crit of Tsunami compare to the other comparable aircraft? Did the designer (was it Bruce Boland, I can't remember) design the airfoil with a high enough Mach crit to outclass the competition?

Tsunami never had an engine or propeller to show the planes capabilities. There were always propeller and engine issues with it. Skip had always indicated that Tsunami was the fastest plane he had ever flown at Reno when it was running. It just never could have everything right at the same moment. One year it qualified the fastest only to have the owner fiddle with the ADI system that later failed in the final race on Sunday. I can still remember Steve Hinton yelling over the radio asking where the emergency ADI valve had gone to. Apparently the owner decided to remove it as he felt it was not needed for the final race. Another time it was the propeller giving trouble and then it was the ignition system. They never seemed to get it together. It probably had the greatest potential to surpass everyone out there at some point in time, had it been developed further.

[kiwiracefan]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

Ive just got to say thanks for all of this amazing insights to some of the most interesting and loved racers around and the aerodynamic side to the racing, dont get me wrong about the constant need for hp, but you could have all the hp in the world, but if the aerodynamics arent right then all that hp doesnt matter. Thanks again Matt for the insights

[Frank C.]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

Posted twice by accident. Sorry

Frank C.

[Frank C.]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

Dear Matt,

What could be done as far as Mr. Awesome/ Frost Bite wing is concerned to make it a stable aircraft? Maybe a T-2 Buckeye wing as someone has already suggested? I am a wildlife biologist so my aeronautical engineering knowledge is limited. I understand how birds can fly, aircraft are a little more complicated. Never saw a Canvasback duck fly with a JADO attached. LOL. Thanks for all the info.

Frank Caruso

[Matt Jackson]

Re: MR. AWESOME / FROST BITE 4 SALE

My new aircraft being built American Spirit was the brain child of Dave Cornell. Dave and I started the project in 1993 utilizing a T2 wing and components with a 3350. The plane is currently under construction at Sanders aircraft in Ione CA. T2 wing is the best out there for the job at hand for off the shelf parts.

Matt J