Copyrighted Pictures..

[wyhdah]

I am curious as to how much the racers are paid by those copyrighting and profiting from their photographs. Can a couple of the guys selling race pictures (or owners) for print or promotional material comment on this?

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Copyrighted Pictures..

Many times I have been invited by photographers over the years to their oppulent suites at the Reno Air Races, I have been in awe of the profits generated by the sheer volume of the pictures that they take. The lavish dinners that they throw are second to none, The women they leave posing nude in their trail will not be bothered with mere mortals when they have been tossed away.

Wake up man, the Photograph of the airplane was taken by the photographer, and unless he has a deal where he is shooting the material for someone else the pictures and the image belong to the photographer not the owner of the plane, car building whatever.

[wyhdah]

Re: Copyrighted Pictures..

John, excuse me for asking a question for which I have interest in. One of the best poster ever is Victors picture of Dago and the Bear and it is sold right in front of the stands. I am just curious as to if the teams are paid for such a poster or picture.

I respect your postition on this board and in the history of this sport but your sarcasm is unwarrented.

[wyhdah]

Re: Copyrighted Pictures..

Since BellcobraIV mentioned automobiles I will elaborate on some of where this question comes from. NASCAR licnese all its materials and I promise you nothing is printed or sold at the races without their consent or prior agreement and payment which they share with the teams directly or indiectly with the marketing of the sport.

I don't think it is too far fetched for race plane owners to get paid for those materials that are for profit or sale.

Listen to the credits after an event in any other sport and you will get the gist of what I am talking about.

[ignomini]

Re: Copyrighted Pictures..

Most venues, NCAR included, technically control commercial rights at the venue, but in today's environment it's almost impossible to stop photographers from doing their own thing. About all the venue can do is control access to the best spots (like the pylons).

I think Bell Cobra's humor is really intended to illustrate the honest fact there aren't any wealthy airplane photographers, or more correctly, photographers who are becoming wealthy shooting airplanes. The money just isn't there.

[wyhdah]

Re: Copyrighted Pictures..

So I'll pose the question to you. Are the photogs at the pylons having to pay to be there and is any of that money getting back to the teams?

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Copyrighted Pictures..

So I'll pose the question to you. Are the photogs at the pylons having to pay to be there and is any of that money getting back to the teams?

Photographers on the pylons are "media" and have only publishing rights on the photos taken there, or anywhere else at the event. We all sign an agreeement with RARA stating that we will not sell any photo in any other manner than for publishing unless previously agreed to, in writing.

I can assure you, the fees I personally have received for publication of my work from Reno and elsewhere does not even come close to covering the cost of the tools I use to gather said material. Personally, I feel that the work we do to get published is motivated by the desire to promote the sport. I like to see articles with racing photography in as many places as possible. I suspect, most who are published feel the same way.

I'm reasonalby certain that everyone who buys a ticket at Reno is actually limited in what they can do, commercially, with their phtography and video.

Other than the above, I know of no obligation to pay or agreements to pay royayalties to the racers unless the photos were to be used in a product promotion, such as the watch ads we've been seeing.

As far as I'm concerned, If I had to pay to do what I do, any further than what I've had to pay to buy my camera gear.. I'd have to sell it and sit in the stands and just enjoy the races..

I'd suspect, most other photographers who do what we do would have to do the same. I pay to do what I do already and I do it not for the money that I don't make, I do it because I like doing it and enjoy promoting the sport..

Wayne

[wyhdah]

Re: Copyrighted Pictures..

Thanks for the reply Wayne that is what I wanted to know from the Photographers side. You mentioned:

Other than the above, I know of no obligation to pay or agreements to pay royayalties to the racers unless the photos were to be used in a product promotion, such as the watch ads we've been seeing

This is my main question do you know of any of the racers recieving payment from such an agreement, aside from the movie, like the posters and books we see for sale.

[Lockheed Bob]

Re: Copyrighted Pictures..

Well said Wayne.I hope this puts the question to bed.Bottom line,all of you photographers do this because of the love of the sport not for money. Thank all of you for sharing those photos.

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Copyrighted Pictures..

John, excuse me for asking a question for which I have interest in. One of the best poster ever is Victors picture of Dago and the Bear and it is sold right in front of the stands. I am just curious as to if the teams are paid for such a poster or picture.

I respect your postition on this board and in the history of this sport but your sarcasm is unwarrented.

Sarcasm from me is always warranted, and is usually served up with a side order of rhye, however since it didn't seem to be digestable, I will explain. There is no instrument in place that gives the rights of the image of a race plane to it's owner, Pilot, Mechanics etc. the Photographs are being taken in the "public domain" and as such are public, I would argue that those that are off the race course in the valley of speed, that have not bought a ticket, that are not bound by that ticket and it's limited license can do what ever they want with the pictures they have taken as they are just pictures taken of an airplane in the air that happens to be racing around a course in Reno.

Perhaps that is a reason Reno fights so hard to shut off that part of the venue? They can't control it.

BTW since you do not appreciate my sarcasm I will no longer serve it to you.

[sierra fox]

Re: Copyrighted Pictures..

Then there are those of us who "pay" our addmission "and" photograph from the VOS. I was told long ago that the only time it's not right to sell my work is when the "said" subject is "in" a hangar. Anywhere else is basically fairgame. Unless, like Wayne said, there was an agreement signed to the contrary!!!

I prefer sourdough on the side

[mustang5151]

Re: Copyrighted Pictures..

Well said Wayne.I hope this puts the question to bed.Bottom line,all of you photographers do this because of the love of the sport not for money. Thank all of you for sharing those photos.

Well put...I'll second what's said here and add my thanks!!

[Apteryx]

Re: Copyrighted Pictures..

I pay to do what I do already and I do it not for the money that I don't make, I do it because I like doing it and enjoy promoting the sport..
Wayne

...as can be said for the pilots and crews....

[David E. Wells]

Re: Copyrighted Pictures..

When it comes to editions of artwork signed by the "celebrity" portrayed in the edition, generally it is the artist or the artist's agent that compensates the signor...D.

[T. Adams]

Re: Copyrighted Pictures..

Please stop by my opulent vista when you all get to Reno next year!!