Rumors......

[First time Juke]

3 engined racer ?

First off, any time Skip is talking to someone "unfamiliar with air racing", he's probably yanking their chain somehow.

Second...prop clearance, anyone?

Unless you make twin with a pusher engine in fuse also. This came to me when thinking how I get more thrust to my small ( 12 x 14 ft tweedy racer with 2-strokes ) racer design.

It would have another good side too..the rear prop would be in less turbulent air as in Do-335 for instance.

My 400 lbs flyweight ( 470 lbs tops) racer props only need to be 20-22 inches ...so a sailplane type mainwheel will do ! Ok tailwheels are then little bit different looking I have to admit.

Those 2-strokes are incredible a 125 ccm engine can put out 62 hp:s with regular gas ( and some lubrication ) !?

Generally Randy is right..gear arrangement in a push-pull is a large apparatus.


rgds,

Juke


Below some estimates of the lap speeds too. Noteworthy might be that the power to weight ratio is even or better than any Reno racer.
Idea is to use 150 ccm engines and tweek 70 hp from each..flyweight for the racer maybe as much 470 lbs ( for sunday flying version 350 lbs max. with 2 engines ). Please feel free to comment.

[jetsarehard]

Re: Rumors......

the photo of the lear 24, in my opinion, appears to be a photoshop.

[First time Juke]

Re: Rumors......

Looks pretty real to me...

[King]

Re: Rumors......

the photo of the lear 24, in my opinion, appears to be a photoshop.

That Lear has Williams FJ44-1A engines, the tip tanks were removed, the wings were extended and winglets built and installed.

Why would I photoshop something like that?

Therefore, your opinion is wrong.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Rumors......

That Lear has Williams FJ44-1A engines, the tip tanks were removed, the wings were extended and winglets built and installed.

Why would I photoshop something like that?

Therefore, your opinion is wrong.

No Chip.... you're busted... We can see where the Griffons are PS'd out and the normal Lear stuff is cloned back in...

Nice try !

[taglialavore]

Re: Rumors......

Why don´t take a Tucano and put a Merlin inside, allias "Muscano", a slim smaller canopy and put it taildragger.
May be you can find it from surplus in a near future. Just kidding...Hey, I´m liking the idea!

[King]

Re: Rumors......

No Chip.... you're busted... We can see where the Griffons are PS'd out and the normal Lear stuff is cloned back in...

Nice try !

[Pdawg]

Re: Rumors......

Wow!!!

I love the creativity goin on here! Can't wait to find out the wingloading...maybe its in the f-104 range with dbl the engines, extra landing gear, and additional fuel. It will have to be fast just to break ground! I'm still having a tough time visualizing it though. I also love the name, Matty laird would be proud.

[Randy Haskin]

Re: Rumors......

I personally like Skip's MiG-21 racer idea.

After reading about it here, I was having a discussion about it with a fellow military pilot who also happens to be a race fan.

The airframe is cheap, about the right size, but a little on the heavy side. We both agreed that it would require the entire thing to be de-constructed down the barest sub-structures and rebuilt all new to even come close to working.

All the military junk would have to be ripped out, all new systems would need to be designed and built (think about what you lose when you remove the bleed air and power-take-off units from a jet and replace them with a piston engine). New electrical system and cooling system for the piston engine. The stabs are fully hydraulic and the ailerons are boosted, so a new hydro system would also need to be designed.

Of course, the thing has tons of parasitic drag with the rivets and fasteners and erratic panel lines. All of that could be built out when the thing is re-skinned.

Naturally a tall nose gear is needed to give some prop clearance as I mentioned in my earlier post.

Probably not worth the time or effort...but a fun thought.

[First time Juke]

Re: Rumors......

I personally like Skip's MiG-21 racer idea.

---------------snip---------------

Naturally a tall nose gear is needed to give some prop clearance as I mentioned in my earlier post.

Probably not worth the time or effort...but a fun thought.

That torque might put the parallerogram system in the main gear into a real test !

Also the MATT aka Elbarto idea of the tractor layout gear in a pusher was into extent a pretty good one. Wouldn't handle the torque ( or would it ? ), but still.

rgds,

Juke

[dvddude]

Re: Rumors......

I personally like Skip's MiG-21 racer idea.

After reading about it here, I was having a discussion about it with a fellow military pilot who also happens to be a race fan.

Do you really think that would be much of an advantage on the Reno race course, where the vast majority of the race is in a turn? Sure, the low aspect ratio Mig-21 slim wings might be fast for straight and level, but the Mig-21 is not exactly known for having a tight turn radius. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a thicker wing that produces a lot of lift be better for a "turning racer", like at Reno, than one for straight and level all out speed - which a Mig-21 wing would be more advantageous for?

[t-dub]

Re: Rumors......

Do you really think that would be much of an advantage on the Reno race course, where the vast majority of the race is in a turn? Sure, the low aspect ratio Mig-21 slim wings might be fast for straight and level, but the Mig-21 is not exactly known for having a tight turn radius. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a thicker wing that produces a lot of lift be better for a "turning racer", like at Reno, than one for straight and level all out speed - which a Mig-21 wing would be more advantageous for?

Supposedly, that's EXACTLY what William Statler has devised with Wildfire's wing.......

[Randy Haskin]

Re: Rumors......

the Mig-21 is not exactly known for having a tight turn radius.

Actually, the MiG-21 is known to be able to put on a really great turn compared to other fighters of the day (Phantoms, Crusaders, Huns, Thuds). It's weakness was that it would not sustain that turn very long -- it was a '1-trick pony' that, once you rant it out of energy, could be spanked pretty well. Thus the guys in Vietnam learned that they could out-rate and out-power the Fishbed in a turning fight. This is also why Fishbeds kept their speed up and executed a lot of slashing attacks on US formations.

My thought is that since the duration of the heavy G (greater than 4G) is not very long on the race course, AND the 'racer' airframe would be lighter and slicker, this tendency to energy bleed would be less of a factor. I mean, we're talking about a completely different P-sub-S graph for the racer -- there would almost be no comparison between it and a stock Fishbed because of the multitude of changes in weight distribution, aerodynamics, thrust plane, etc.

[dvddude]

Re: Rumors......

Actually, the MiG-21 is known to be able to put on a really great turn compared to other fighters of the day (Phantoms, Crusaders, Huns, Thuds). It's weakness was that it would not sustain that turn very long -- it was a '1-trick pony' that, once you rant it out of energy, could be spanked pretty well. Thus the guys in Vietnam learned that they could out-rate and out-power the Fishbed in a turning fight. This is also why Fishbeds kept their speed up and executed a lot of slashing attacks on US formations.

Turn radius is relative to what you are comparing it against. Yes, the Mig-21 was known for that relative to our airplanes, but I know F-4 drivers from Nam who were more respecting of the Mig-17's tighter turn circle. So, my point is that you must compare the turning radius of the Mig-21 relative to the P-51, Sea Fury, Bearcat, etc. not against Crusaders, Huns, and Thuds. I would be willing to bet that a thick wing Mustang or Sea Fury wing would do better on a turning course like Reno, than a Mig-21 wing.

I don't think putting a recip engine in a Fishbed would be anything but HUGELY expensive and risky. Can you imagine the engineering involved in that, much less of how the FAA would ever buy off on it? I understand your point, Randy, but I just don't think the Fishbed would fare very well in a tight turning race like Reno, IMO.

[John]

Re: Rumors......

Hey Guys, wasn't it the Mig 17 Skip Holm was referring to as an unlimited racer base? After we all watched the 2000 jet demo with the Mig17's punching the afterburners I think a light went on in our heads about sticking an engine and prop on it! LOL!