WHAT? power off landings of commercal A/Cs

[MRussell]

Re: WHAT? power off landings of commercal A/Cs

I say bring back one Concorde and send her on a "takeoff-landing tour" of the US to show residents what a "loud" airplane really is. Will make them greatful for the true silence of modern aircraft.

[Bob]

Re: WHAT? power off landings of commercal A/Cs

I say bring back one Concorde and send her on a "takeoff-landing tour" of the US to show residents what a "loud" airplane really is. Will make them greatful for the true silence of modern aircraft.

what about an old kc-135, those are pretty loud.

[Ron101502]

Re: WHAT? power off landings of commercal A/Cs

FlyKidChris has a much greater challenge flying the Back Bay departure from SNA in a 737 than I did in my A-320 days as the Bus will do everything above 500 feet on that departure on autopilot/autothrust, and company policy required us to couple up. I have flown that departure in an MD-82 and it is much busier and more heads down, and that was before TCAS when there was VFR traffic that was a factor, circa 1986 when I wasa resrve MD-82 captain. But the real challenge is landing on the 5200 foot runway although I sometimes greased it on there then had a cruncher the next day on a 10000 foot runway, bet Chris has had similar experiences.

[t-dub]

Re: WHAT? power off landings of commercal A/Cs

Reno, Galaxy Airlines in 1985. Crashed about a mile from where I work now.

Here's the official report.

Date of Accident: 21 January 1985
Airline: Galaxy Airlines
Aircraft: Lockheed L-188A
Location: Reno, Nevada
Registration: N5532
Previous Registrations: ---
Flight Number: 203
Fatalities: 70:71
MSN: 1121
Line Number: ---
Engine Manufacturer: ---
Engine Model: ---
Year of Delivery: ---
Accident Description: The aircraft crashed while returning to the airport after reporting severe vibrations. While attempting to land, the aircraft crashed into a field, bounced and slid into mobile homes. A ground handler forgot to close an air start access door. The crew's failure to control and monitor the flight path and air speed of the aircraft after detecting the vibration. Of the 71 people aboard, three survived the initial impact, but one of them died on January 29 and another on February 4. The lone survivor was then 17-year old George Lamson Jr., who was thrown clear of the aircraft and landed upright, still in his seat, on South Virginia Street.

George Kitchen, who was a captain in the Reno Fire Department leading a crew from station No. 6 in south Reno, noted, "One of the first things we saw was the boy. He was still strapped in his seat out on South Virginia Street. He was conscious. We gave him first aid until the medics got there."

A store and seven RV's were also damaged. The plane was returning from a gaming/Super Bowl trip sponsored by Caesars Tahoe.

Heavy vibration started shortly after takeoff, and the cockpit voice recorders recorded one of the pilots asking the tower to allow them to make a left downwind turn, that they had to get back on the ground.


The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of this accident was the captain’s failure to control and the copilot’s failure to monitor the flight path and airspeed of the aircraft. This breakdown in crew coordination followed the onset of unexpected vibration shortly after takeoff.

Contributing to the accident was the failure of ground handlers to properly close an air start access door, which led to the vibration.

The NTSB report indicates that the ground handlers did not properly close the air start access door due to a sudden change in their procedure when the ground handler supervisor realized that the headset being used to communicate with the flightcrew was nonfunctional, and had to revert mid-routine to using hand signals. This break in routine led the supervisor to signal the flight to taxi before the air start hose was disconnected. Although he then realized that the hose was still connected and signaled the flightcrew for an emergency stop, and the hose was successfully disconnected, the closing of the air start access door was not completed either prior to the supervisor's initial go-ahead or after the emergency stop.

The report concluded that the air start access door is what led to the vibrations. The investigation indicated that these vibrations were not a threat to the aircraft's safe operation, and would likely not have prevented the aircraft from reaching cruise speed and altitude. Similar reports surfaced from other Electra pilots which indicated that the vibrations ceased at higher air speeds.

While the flightcrew was trying to determine the source of the vibrations, they reduced power to all four enginges simultaneously, presumably to test the engines to see if they were the source. Power was then not increased before the wings stalled.

[FlyKidChris]

Re: WHAT? power off landings of commercal A/Cs

... and that was before TCAS when there was VFR traffic that was a factor, circa 1986 when I wasa resrve MD-82 captain. But the real challenge is landing on the 5200 foot runway although I sometimes greased it on there then had a cruncher the next day on a 10000 foot runway, bet Chris has had similar experiences.

Ron,

You're right; there's a lot of traffic around SNA and the TCAS depiction is often "busy."

You're also right about my landings there. My first into SNA was my all-time worst in the 737. The last (most recent) was one of my best. There's also a big difference in landings and landing techniques between the various 737 versions that we operate into SNA; the 737-500 is very easy to land well.

Blue skies,

Chris

[Bill Marsh]

Re: WHAT? power off landings of commercal A/Cs

Gentlemen,

All respondees to this post, very cool!!!!!


What is the golden rule Humm...... not sure

The saying goes " Always prioritize Burneules law before practicing marcones law or something something.... " cant remember the rest


help


Bmarsh (cant spell worth a crap)