Update on Red Bull P-38??

[Red]

Re: Update on Red Bull P-38??

Why do I get the feeling that, had I posted a message congratulating the Red Bull folks for the recent completion of their new aquisition and wishing them a bon voyage on the trip over with it....

A few of you would likely have posted a message similar to my first one?

Sorry...I don't think anyone could pull that off except you.

[Peashooter]

Re: Update on Red Bull P-38??

...like tom cruise to play around with and then ground loop. /RANT

Oh man, did Katie prang the 'stang!?!

As for the fate of racers, unfortunately, money talks, the rest squawks.

The rising value of TF-51s didn't help the fates of Sumpthin' Else, Stilleto, etc.

[t-dub]

Re: Update on Red Bull P-38??

BOTTOM LINE: It 's been restored! By who, what, why, where, how, doesn't matter, a machine of historical signifigance, wartime or racing, has been SAVED! BRAVO Gentlemen, BRAVO............nuf said..........

[BuckyD]

Re: Update on Red Bull P-38??

For my 2-cents' worth....Peas & t-dub, quite succinctly- 'tell it like it is'.

At the same time, I have to admit that a long time ago, I too used to get upset hearing that another warbird migrated across the Big Pond (or elsewhere), which sometimes included a few Unlimited air racers (P-63 'Tipsy Miss'/'What Price Speed' readily comes to mind). Then when one of those birds were lost 'over there' due to accident, hangar fire, etc. - the bad news fortified my 'indignation' further.

Throw-in the unending arguments about 'chopping' (modifying) warbirds for air racing, accident loss percentage comparisons of warbird flying vs. air racing, etc. - it was easy to forget about the challenging economic realities & imposing govt. regulation facing those passionate individuals who commit themselves towards preserving & flying these rare & amazing high-performance warbirds, which we're thrilled (& privileged) to see fly or displayed in museums around the world.

Today, I'm resigned to change, and have noted that warbirds DO also- 'come back' here to the good ole' USA as well. The Lockheed P-38 Lightning is my all-time favorite aircraft type of ANY airplane ever created. Some of my most memorable airshow/air racing moments were experiencing the truly AMAZING flying displays performed by the uncomparable- Marvin 'Lefty' Gardner - aerobatic, as well as down on the race course at many different venues over the past three decades+. But airplanes, expecially warbirds, seem to have a life of their own - passing from one era to the next, and from one lucky 'caretaker' to another in the process. Lefty's P-38 has led & influenced many lives, and hopefully will continue on even after our time has come & gone.

I applaud Nelson Ezell's crew for their outstanding rebuild job & wish the P-38's new owners good luck & hope they'll operate Ole' N25Y wisely & safely while she's in their care, where ever she's flying. That beautiful bird will do a super job marketing just about ANYTHING, even that rasty beverage!

Gotta say here, that there IS one warbird which recently left our Home Land that I AM very upset about, and that's Lt. Ken Sprankle's P-40B (s/n 41-13297) Pearl Harbor Attack survivor - which was meticulously restored by Project Tomahawk & then finished by Matt Nightingale in Calif. to go away to new ownership & flying duty w/The Fighter Collection in the U.K. not long ago. I consider THAT aircraft as a one-of-a-kind U.S. national treasure, which should've gone into the Smithsonian National Air & Space Museum permanent collection after a short celebratory flight demo stint, in my opinion. Some U.S. benefactor, or the USAF Museum or NASM should've come forth earlier in support of the restoration to earmark it for preservation HERE & prominet public display in the U.S. We REALLY dropped the ball on this one, I say. Hopefully, this particular plane will be one to return home someday. DBD

[dvddude]

Re: Update on Red Bull P-38??

If there was some group who made it financially feasible for someone to off load these racers as is, we would not see racers being turned into two seat hanger queens for dooshebags like tom cruise to play around with and then ground loop.
/RANT

Oh man, did Katie prang the 'stang!?!

Yes, please DO tell! Did Mr. Top Gun have a little accident? I've heard some....aaahhhemmm......shall we say...... interesting...... things about Tom's flying abilities.

[retroaviation]

Re: Update on Red Bull P-38??

...The problem here is that there is no one throwing money at preserving racing history.

Um, not entirely true. Sure, it's not a P-38, but it's still at least a small part of racing history......http://warbirdinformationexchange.or...ic.php?t=17299

Gary

[jhall@jetav.com]

Re: Update on Red Bull P-38??

Um, not entirely true. Sure, it's not a P-38, but it's still at least a small part of racing history......http://warbirdinformationexchange.or...ic.php?t=17299

Gary

I second that Gary, I've thrown plenty at is as well and I know many others doing the same. You also have to hand it to newcomer Rod Lewis and his seemingly unlimited budget with Rare Bear, not to mention the other historical non-racers he is preserving.

John

[Red]

Re: Update on Red Bull P-38??

White lightning's paint scheme is modeled after the Thunderbirds paint scheme, much like his p-51 was.

"Speeddemon says that White Lightnin' paint scheme was NOT based on the Thunderbirds. During the 1960's through the early 1970's, ALL of the CAF aircraft...including Diamond Lil, Texas Raiders, several B-25's, A-26's, the Wildcat, Corsair, Hellcat, and at least one Mustang were painted white with red and blue nose/wingtips. The only thing in common with the USAF Thunderbirds was the colors. But at the time the CAF started painting their planes in that scheme, the Thunderbird aircraft were all polished metal with red white and blue trim.

Lefty did not paint Thunderbird in the 'pseudo' Thunderbirds paint scheme until 1976...and that paint scheme was NOT one of the 'official' CAF paint jobs.

White Lightnin', in fact, didn't even have 'scallops' on the engine cowling until 1983...which were put on to more closely resemble the paint job on Thunderbird. Up until that point, the colored sections on the nose were straight...like on the wingtips and tail."

[JJMONGO]

Re: Update on Red Bull P-38??

Bully for you Wayne, this is still the USA and we have the 1st ammendment. I totally agree with you, but even if I did not, you have the right to say it brother.

Keep it up, we love the TRUTH!

Mongo

[flyingjibus]

Re: Update on Red Bull P-38??

"Speeddemon says that White Lightnin' paint scheme was NOT based on the Thunderbirds. During the 1960's through the early 1970's, ALL of the CAF aircraft...including Diamond Lil, Texas Raiders, several B-25's, A-26's, the Wildcat, Corsair, Hellcat, and at least one Mustang were painted white with red and blue nose/wingtips. The only thing in common with the USAF Thunderbirds was the colors. But at the time the CAF started painting their planes in that scheme, the Thunderbird aircraft were all polished metal with red white and blue trim.

Lefty did not paint Thunderbird in the 'pseudo' Thunderbirds paint scheme until 1976...and that paint scheme was NOT one of the 'official' CAF paint jobs.

White Lightnin', in fact, didn't even have 'scallops' on the engine cowling until 1983...which were put on to more closely resemble the paint job on Thunderbird. Up until that point, the colored sections on the nose were straight...like on the wingtips and tail."

So this is a totaly random coincidence?

[Leo]

Re: Update on Red Bull P-38??

I don't know whether the original idea of the "official" CAF paint scheme of those times was based on a T-bird theme, or just a patriotic red-white and blue. Only Lefty, Vernon and the other founders of the CAF could answer that. Speed was right however, that every picture of every CAF plane back then shows it in some variation of the white with red and blue trim. Lefty just never seemed to get rid of it (except the obvious variations) when the other CAF aircraft migrated to more historic "warbird" schemes.
Personally I was never a huge fan of the scheme, and even less of the P-51 Thunderbird scheme. I would say that the white on the P-38 made it a better target for the aero routines. And that is what I will remember about White Lightning and Lefty, the soft purr of those allisons as he gracefully and seemingly effortlessly put her thru her paces.
THAT will remain with me, no matter how it is painted or who owns it. The era is gone and with a little sadness it is time to move on. I am just grateful I got to have the experience.

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Update on Red Bull P-38??

I don't know whether the original idea of the "official" CAF paint scheme of those times was based on a T-bird theme, or just a patriotic red-white and blue. Only Lefty, Vernon and the other founders of the CAF could answer that. Speed was right however, that every picture of every CAF plane back then shows it in some variation of the white with red and blue trim. Lefty just never seemed to get rid of it (except the obvious variations) when the other CAF aircraft migrated to more historic "warbird" schemes.
Personally I was never a huge fan of the scheme, and even less of the P-51 Thunderbird scheme. I would say that the white on the P-38 made it a better target for the aero routines. And that is what I will remember about White Lightning and Lefty, the soft purr of those allisons as he gracefully and seemingly effortlessly put her thru her paces.
THAT will remain with me, no matter how it is painted or who owns it. The era is gone and with a little sadness it is time to move on. I am just grateful I got to have the experience.

Leo,

Funny you should mention that because as a lad I had those exact conversations with Lefty and LLoyd Nolan regarding the CAF paint and it had nothing to do at all with the Thunderbirds, And Lefty as Late as my conversations with him at Reno a couple of years ago was leaving White lightning in the somewhat more artistic without the straight lines on the color seperation in tribute to the original CAF schemes. nothing, repeat nothing was mentioned about the Thunderbirds. Besides what would be the point of Corsairs, Hellcats, and Bearcats in Thunderbird paint.

[Leo]

Re: Update on Red Bull P-38??

LLoyd Nolan!
THAT was the name I was trying to remember and brain farted on.
Getting old...
I always wondered if that was his intention.
BTW the paint scheme was not very flattering to some types!

[King]

Re: Update on Red Bull P-38??

Here is a nice thread on the "House Colors" for the CAF back in the day.

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=20853

You might note that when Lefty and company first painted thier aircraft in the House Colors, the thunderbirds were sporting polished metal with red white and blue stripes, etc.

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Update on Red Bull P-38??

So this is a totaly random coincidence?

Looks to me based on the dates that maybe the commanding Officer of the Thunderbirds said Hey that P-38 looks pretty cool lets Paint our Phantoms like that. If you want to be all "somebody copied somebody"