How many F117s are left??

[stuntflyr]

Re: How many F117s are left??

He's posted here before on the topic. He was an IP in the training squadron at the time.

I'm still perplexed that the general public seems to think that because a guy's name is on the side of a jet, that he's the one flying the jet all the time.

Randy,

I find it amazing that USAF pilot's think that everyone in the public should already know what they know.
In other words, why would they know anything different? For that matter, I don't know what ATO means from your other post.
But, I get the gist;
So you are expecting people to know some things but you don't want them to know others. Right?
My only question is, do you still land the airplane in a crab?

Signed,
civilian professional pilot

[Leo]

Re: How many F117s are left??

Personally, If I did'nt know what ATO, or IP meant I'd look it up. But that's the way I learn things...
As far as public perception. It does'nt surprise me. Not to sound elitist, but we who are into all of this as either a profession or a hobbie have a much deeper knowledge of the subject than the average person who see's them as little planes and big planes.

And to echo Wayne, thank you Randy and all others that makr things like this board a thing we can take for granted.

[stuntflyr]

Re: How many F117s are left??

Well Leo,
I wasn't asking to you.
I comments were directly to Ace Haskin.

[Leo]

Re: How many F117s are left??

Sorry, did'nt know it was a private forum.

[Lance]

Re: How many F117s are left??

He's posted here before on the topic. He was an IP in the training squadron at the time.

I'm still perplexed that the general public seems to think that because a guy's name is on the side of a jet, that he's the one flying the jet all the time.

How is it decided whose name goes on which jet? Isn't it a privilige given to the most senior pilots?

[Bob]

Re: How many F117s are left??

Mr civilian professional pilot,
Are you just jealous because in the planes you fly your name dosnt appear on its sides? Maybe they could give you magnetic signs to take with you from plane to plane?
Just a thought.

Cheers

Bob

[Randy Haskin]

Re: How many F117s are left??

I find it amazing that USAF pilot's think that everyone in the public should already know what they know.
In other words, why would they know anything different? For that matter, I don't know what ATO means from your other post.
But, I get the gist;
So you are expecting people to know some things but you don't want them to know others. Right?
My only question is, do you still land the airplane in a crab?

I never have the expectation that a member of the public will know everything I know. I said I was 'perplexed' that the general public thought that.

This topic, however, pops up all the time (Wiz Dwelle's name being on the F-117 canopy), and it has been explained on this very board several times. It is normal internet etiquette to "search" a forum for a topic before posting on it, though.

Not sure where you're making the giant leap of logic that I apparently want people to know some information but not others? Sorry, not following that one at all.

Land in a crab? No, rudder it straight in the flare.

[Randy Haskin]

Re: How many F117s are left??

How is it decided whose name goes on which jet? Isn't it a privilige given to the most senior pilots?

Yes, that's pretty close.

There are about 20 jets in any given fighter squadron (18 in smaller ones, 24 in larger ones) and probably 3 times that number of pilots assigned to the squadron to fly them. Obviously not everyone is on a jet.

So, it's a seniority thing. When you show up in the squadron and become mission qualified, you go on the list to get a name. When senior guys leave the squadron, their name comes off the jet, and the next new guy gets put on.

The name on the jet gig for pilots is essentially just tradition, as officially we have no responsibility to that aircraft. The maintenance organization really "owns" the fleet of airplanes, and they have their own assigned dedicated crew chiefs for each jet. Those guys are the ones who really show the airplane love and care.

For daily flying, there is an agreement between the flying squadron and the maintenance squadron as to how many aircraft are going to fly on any given day. The maintenance folks tell the flyers which tail numbers will be filling the flying schedule that day.

When it's time for me to go fly, I am told by the operations supervisor -- the senior aviator on duty in my squadron who is orchestrating and overseeing all the flying ops -- what tail number I will be flying on that particular flight.

[Lockheed Bob]

Re: How many F117s are left??

Randy I may lose this one but I for one know a little psychology about things in life. To be good you have to have a good ego level as "Tiger" once said when asked "well you came in second" & his reply was "yeah I was the first loser". It doesn't matter about your name being on a plane whether you are flying it or not. In other words let the subject rest & thanks Randy for flying for all of us. Stay positve & out of harms way.

[Hawkeye]

Re: How many F117s are left??

ATO = Air Tasking Order

IP = Instructor Pilot

[Lance]

Re: How many F117s are left??

Yes, that's pretty close.

There are about 20 jets in any given fighter squadron (18 in smaller ones, 24 in larger ones) and probably 3 times that number of pilots assigned to the squadron to fly them. Obviously not everyone is on a jet.

So, it's a seniority thing. When you show up in the squadron and become mission qualified, you go on the list to get a name. When senior guys leave the squadron, their name comes off the jet, and the next new guy gets put on.

The name on the jet gig for pilots is essentially just tradition, as officially we have no responsibility to that aircraft. The maintenance organization really "owns" the fleet of airplanes, and they have their own assigned dedicated crew chiefs for each jet. Those guys are the ones who really show the airplane love and care.

For daily flying, there is an agreement between the flying squadron and the maintenance squadron as to how many aircraft are going to fly on any given day. The maintenance folks tell the flyers which tail numbers will be filling the flying schedule that day.

When it's time for me to go fly, I am told by the operations supervisor -- the senior aviator on duty in my squadron who is orchestrating and overseeing all the flying ops -- what tail number I will be flying on that particular flight.

Thanks for the response Randy, that's about how I imagined it working.

[stuntflyr]

Re: How many F117s are left??

Land in a crab? No, rudder it straight in the flare.

Well, the rest doesn't matter. Praise God for this.
Chris...

[Ken Dwelle]

Re: How many F117s are left??

Hi All, I'm a little late to find this thread but here is the answer to the original question:

There were 5 Full Scale Development (FSD) aircraft built for test use, they are all still around. The first two were retired early on and placed on display at Nellis AFB and at the Air Force Museum. The last three remained on duty as test aircraft until the end, one is on display at Holloman AFB, one at Palmdale, CA and I don't know where the other one ended up.

There were 59 operational aircraft built and as a previous poster said, 7 were lost:

- The first jet (785) was lost on it's initial test flight due to control system problems, the pilot survived and the remains were rebuilt for display, this is the jet on a stick in front of the Lockheed plant at Palmdale. The Air Force never "accepted" this jet because it was lost while on a Lockheed test flight.
- Three aircraft and pilots were lost due to crashes attributed to Spatial Disorientation.
- Crank Mills jumped out of 801 after it lost control due to a bleed duct leak and fire.
- BK Knight jumped out of 793 after it lost control at a Maryland airshow following the loss of a wing (flutter caused by missing fasteners).
- 806 in Bosnia.

So by my count there should be 52 of the 59 operational jets left. I understand they have all (except 785) been retired to Tonapah. Plus the 5 FSD jets which have found their way to various museums.

There are a couple of great recources on the history of the jet:
"F-117 Nighthawk" by Crickmore available on Amazon is the best book.
www.f-117a.com is the best website I know of and explains all these accidents in better detail.

[Randy Haskin]

Re: How many F117s are left??

Crank Mills jumped out of 801 after it lost control due to a bleed duct leak and fire.

How long ago did this happen?

I flew with a "Crank" Mills in AT-38s who had an A-10 background. I wonder if it's the same guy (although I'm sure that's not an unusual callsign for somebody with that last name).

[Ken Dwelle]

Re: How many F117s are left??

Randy-

4 Aug 1992. I'm sure it's the same guy, he was a Hog Driver.

Ken