ME-109 down at airshow in Germany

[AirDOGGe]

Re: ME-109 down at airshow in Germany

Yeah, Walter's collapsed gear may have nothing to do with the ground loop issue of the 109, but it's interesting to discuss, none-the-less.

...One notion when comparing Me-109 and Mustang and Spitfire gear is that Me-109 had about 3 metre dia prop and Mustang somewhere closer to 4 metre dia...and Spit likewise.

However the engine layout in Me 109 made it possible to install through propler hub firing 20 and 30 mm cannon eventually into the 109, thus making it very leathal weaponsystem. If you look at the Supermarine Spitfire F24 propellor the hub points several degrees down.

Well, I would assume a smaller diameter prop would result in LESS P-factor (torque), so I doubt the smaller prop has anything to do with the increased ground-looping.

And I don't think the angle of the propeller has much effect on control during landings, except for go-arounds.



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[Red]

Re: ME-109 down at airshow in Germany

Yeah, Walter's collapsed gear may have nothing to do with the ground loop issue of the 109, but it's interesting to discuss, none-the-less.






Well, I would assume a smaller diameter prop would result in LESS P-factor (torque), so I doubt the smaller prop has anything to do with the increased ground-looping.

And I don't think the angle of the propeller has much effect on control during landings, except for go-arounds.



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What does have an effect I'm sure, is the tiny tail volume, coupled with any blanking affect from the flaps and the longish lg legs.

[AirDOGGe]

Re: ME-109 down at airshow in Germany

It DOES appear to have a (relatively speaking) small vertical tail. That could very well be a factor.

It may be that the control problems are a combination of all these little details, and not caused by one single design feature.

[bergschrund]

Re: ME-109 down at airshow in Germany

All good facts all right.
Mark Hanna had some ideas written down how one takes off with a 109...it was in some aviation mag some 17-20 years ago. I could look it up if interested. I recall one wannabe aviator in Finland during WWII tried twice and ended up ditching two 109s before assignment in the office work elsewhere.

......
It's interesting that Mark Hanna died at a Spanish airshow while flying a Spanish built bf 109 in 1999. B

[First time Juke]

Re: ME-109 down at airshow in Germany

......
It's interesting that Mark Hanna died at a Spanish airshow while flying a Spanish built bf 109 in 1999. B

If I recall right he tried to turn the plane onto a runway and the plane stalled at low speed in a tight turn. Me-109 had a very small wing altogether and very large engine compared to early Spits for instance.

He-100D could have solved all these gear related problems, but for some reason Me-109 was chosen instead to be the standard fighter. One those obscure deatails in history.

I remember one famous aviator saying....." One thing I take seriously in flying old warbirds is that you can get seriously killed."

I have personally discussed with Eichorn in 1995 during an airshow in Berlin and I bet there is no other Me-109 pilot in the world today as he is. He experienced a hazardous situation in that particular show when the 109 suddenly lost oil pressure...I bet no one in that show even realised that what had happened. He brought the plane down in a fairly normal landing. Later when I asked if they could fly the plane in Finland ( a G-6 ) I was told that due to engine trouble the flights of that particular 109 are limited to Manching where it was being hangared.

The flying 109s are close to extinction.

[Leo]

Re: ME-109 down at airshow in Germany

Attributed to Lefty Gardner that "Flying the 109 is like making love to a beautiful woman with your wife watching, you just can't enjoy it properly".

[spinner]

Re: ME-109 down at airshow in Germany

Attributed to Lefty Gardner that "Flying the 109 is like making love to a beautiful woman with your wife watching, you just can't enjoy it properly".

A long time ago....I mean a very long time ago when I had hair and Leo was a kid, Bubba Beal ground looped a 109 at the Reno show. He was so disgusted with the thing he gave it to Steve Hinton for the museum. Any of you OLD guys know what year that was?

[stuntflyr]

Re: ME-109 down at airshow in Germany

'81, I think.

[Leo]

Re: ME-109 down at airshow in Germany

It was 81. Woodson Woods had his Spitfire there also and I had hoped for some play with the two together but on the first flight together Bubba ground looped.
Old? Watch it Steve, I'll whack ya with my walker...

[spinner]

Re: ME-109 down at airshow in Germany

81 eh Leo...trying to figure out how old I was then. Know I had the T-6 and was hammering away on the P-40. 27 years ago...jeez.

[Leo]

Re: ME-109 down at airshow in Germany

Almost my life half way point.
Yep, the P-40 was still in your front yard!

The joke here at work is that I knew Moses when he was in short pants and helped design the pyramids.

[spinner]

Re: ME-109 down at airshow in Germany

You remember the P-40 wings out on the front lawn? My neighbors loved it. The shadow of those pannels were etched into the dichondra for 8-9 years or so. Took a long time for it to grow back.

[Leo]

Re: ME-109 down at airshow in Germany

On the lawn, stacked next to the house, and the mostly finished fus in the garage.
I also remember Sparky's center section a few years later sitting in the driveway after blasting when you were in the house off of Edgewood (not the apt.), and the house full of finished parts! Remember staring at an owl on top of a telephone pole one afternoon for who knows how long waiting for it to move before we realized it was fake...
ahh, good old days.

[spinner]

Re: ME-109 down at airshow in Germany

Ya know that owl is still there. Boy did I feel stupid thinking that thing was real. I had more fun in my front 'yards' than anyone else I know. Have to put up a few pix of those deals when I get back down to Vacaville next week. In K Falls now.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: ME-109 down at airshow in Germany

81 eh Leo...trying to figure out how old I was then. Know I had the T-6 and was hammering away on the P-40. 27 years ago...jeez.

Wow.. you had hair in '81!!