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  • Best TWIN Replica/Racer ideas

    Here's an idea to ponder for New Years Day if you don't have much else to do.
    If a kitplane company was going to build a carbon fiber TWIN-ENGINED replica that would be offered two ways-one as a perfect full scale replica (canopy options possible-both with perfect looking original ribbing, windscreen, etc., or with a better visibility single or two-place basic shape substitute); and two- as a racer version with racing wingtips, canopy, air scoops, propellers, etc.,...

    ...then what would be the best candidate to make enough profitable sales for both versions and not be too difficult to build molds for, design rugged original looking landing gear for, and keep weight and balance issues in check. Engines would probably have to be Allison V-12s or maybe the upcoming Atlas V-12s, or ?

    MY CHOICES (in order):
    1) D.H. Hornet
    2) P-82B Twin Mustang
    3) F7F Tigercat (with R-2800s or R-3350s)
    4) Mosquito
    5) P-38
    6) Dornier Do-335 Pfeil
    7) Westland Whirlwind
    8) Northrop F-15 Reporter or P-61 Black Widow (both would be offered)
    9) McDonnell XP-67 Bat
    10) (you write in)

    I love the P-38 but I think someone is already doing it (in 75-80%) so I put it down the list a few notches. The Hornet in racing trim and a couple of Doc’s Merlins would just be unstoppable me thinks. The single canopy P-82B would make a fine racer and the stock version could be an extremely fast 4-place cross-country ship (or would you still rather have a Lancair 4?) that would draw a crowd at every stop.

    Another question arises. Would the company be wiser to scale it down to 75-85% or go full scale (mainly due to engine choices)? There are good arguments both ways. As an employee with the Thunder Mustang company for several years we did sometimes hear the complaint-“Why didn’t you do it full scale if you were going to this much trouble to do it right?” Sometimes that was a hard one to answer.

    Your thoughts please…

  • #2
    I think someone needs to do a full scale dual control P-51. IF it has to be a twin, I thing something similar to the Pond Racer with seating for 2, maybe three (pilot front and center two passengers side by side behind the pilot) powered by two Falconer v-12s or two of the turbo motors like Greenamyer used this year. It would look good, and be competitive in the sport class races.

    Comment


    • #3
      YESTERYEARS

      I IMAGE THAT KNIGHTS OF THE MIDDLE AGES DREAMED OF

      CARBON FIBRE ROMAN CHARIOTS, BUT SHOULD WE LET GO

      OF WWII TECH???

      YES I KNOW ; GLASS HOUSES ETC.

      DA DOC

      Comment


      • #4
        Hell no we shouldn't let go of the old birds. No one has built anything to dethrone them yet, and probably won't anytime soon. The only exception might be a Tsunami clone, but I doubt that will ever happen. If Reno ever looses the warbirds it will be a shame. (and probably the end) You guys keep doin what your doing DOC, and happy new year to all you guys too. See ya in Sept!

        Comment


        • #5
          i would never be the first to say "i want to see the warbirds gone" , but, merlins, allisons, 3350's, 2800's, and 4360's are becoming rare. as are the airframes that cary them. now, whether we like it or not, racing warbirds will eventually be extinct.

          now, our options are to 1. let the warbirds die, and therefore the sport (something i'm not willing to do), OR, 2. develop new racers to take their spots, taking the risk of slwoer speeds and not so thunderous sounds.

          it's a compromise, and a tough one at that.
          heh heh alriiiight

          Comment


          • #6
            I think that there can be a new generation of replica warbirds/racers using modern technology. It can look like a WWII bird on the outside, but be all modern under the skin. Of course development and production costs would probably outweigh any market potentials.

            I do agree that the future of air racing may not include the Unlimited type aircraft that we have today. I would be the first to mourn their passing, but engines, parts and airframes are getting exceedingly rare. I believe the sport class is showing great strides in development and interest. They may be the ones to carry the torch for air racing in the future.

            As long as I am dreaming... My "concept" racer would be a P-38 with a modified racing canopy, clipped wings and Rolls Royce Griffons with counter-rotating props.

            Comment


            • #7
              I am probably not in the "correct" state of mind to be commenting on this but since it's new year's eve..err.. day..

              I'll do it anyway...

              I think there are a "few" parts left out there, the technology that the guys in WWII came up with has yet to be duplicated or bested, as long as there are guys out there like the DOC and Sparrow and others who can wring out what it takes to get to the top.. we're gonna see the "big boys" out there for a few more years.. or more..

              You go DOC!! Sparrow!!

              G'night!

              Wayne
              Wayne Sagar
              "Pusher of Electrons"

              Comment


              • #8
                JOYSTICK

                WELL I,M GLAD TO SEE THAT THE BIRDS CAN DROP THIER

                EGGNOG'S AND GRAB THIER JOYSTICKS AND RESPONED.

                THOUGHT CYBER SPACE HAD DONE GONE DNS.

                A 38 WITH 2 GRIFFS!!! THAT MIGHT RAISE THE DA G GIRL TO NEW

                LEVELS!!! WOULD SURELY WIN THE "FRIENDS OF OPEC AWARD"

                DA DOC

                Comment


                • #9
                  How about a "contemporized" Dornier Do-335 with a pair of Griffs? Heck even Mouse motors. Are there pusher props available for either engine, or could they be made by the former Eastern Bloc aerospace companies? This would be one hot A/C.
                  Rutan Long EZ, N-LONG
                  World Speed Record Holder

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    wayne, didn't you see the figures for the batten v-12 in the bear pit this year? ww2 tech has never been bested?

                    well, tsunami may not have been the fastest plane on the field but it certainly beat the hell out of the stock mustangs, and a few of the super mod planes too.
                    heh heh alriiiight

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The keys to a competitive new race motor are power vs. weight vs. reliability. Thunder Engines has provided great power at decent weight, but is reliability any better? Will a Batten engine de-rated for reliability still be light enough to be competitive?

                      Long way of asking, are we that much ahead of WW-II technology with thumping pistons?
                      Rutan Long EZ, N-LONG
                      World Speed Record Holder

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        RPM

                        IF YOU LOOK AT ENGINES THAT PRODUCE 4 TO 5 AND MORE HP

                        PER C.I. THEY ALL PRODUCE THIER RATED POWER @ 10K TO

                        18K+ RPM. WHAT PROPELLOR DO YOU USE THAT MEETS DA

                        RULES. DUCTED FAN ANYONE???????

                        BUT DON'T THEY HAVE THOSE ATTACH TO TURBINE ENGINES???

                        HOW BOUT JETS WITH RECIP SOUND EFFECTS??????

                        BUT THEN WE MISS THE SMELL OF AV GAS -N- SAGE IN DA

                        MORNING.


                        DA DOC

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Interesting thought on that one DOC.. in some RC model jets, they have a little piston engine humming along at an unbeliveable RPM driving a ducted fan, which resembles a turbine..

                          Is a ducted fan, in the true definetion of the word, a propeller?

                          Might make for some interesting designs.. if the cubic bux were available to bring any of it to flight status..

                          Wayne
                          Wayne Sagar
                          "Pusher of Electrons"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Wayne,
                            I have flown may of those ducted fan jets and even at the current level of technology, the are horribly ineffecient. If you take the same motor, mount it to the front with a proper sized propellor, they fly much better. If you take the fan out of the housing, and hang it on the front, the model probably won't go fast enough to become airborn. Everything is a trade off, the ducting size length etc, required for good static thrust vs good eflux for high speed are very different. Certain aircraft even suffer from duct stall if flown at high aoa, or bank angles. I don't know the scientific, but I say that a ducted fan is not a prop........not a very good one anyway.

                            Jason

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              lowell, i agree, power - weight - reliability are the keys to a successful race engine. i also agree that "thunder" engines have provided great power for decent weight (at the time they were built) and yes the batten from what i've heard is a reliable basic engine for racing. who said anything about the batten being de-rated? with it's stock setup it produces more hp than a -7 stock merlin, for about the same weight.

                              yes, we've come along way lowell, piston engine technology has advanced dramatically in the past 60 years, that's why it's still around. the only reason there have been no new large, high performance piston engines since the 60's (the very last 3350's) is the onset of jet engines. it seems to me that if someone puts the money into developing new large piston engines, they may become a prevelant force in industry again.
                              heh heh alriiiight

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