What happened to the BEAR???

[dineega]

Re: What happened to the BEAR???

Hopefully Mr. Penney will share his story with us. Call it - "Kahunas of steel".
I was in tears as soon as soon as he was on the ground - it amazes me how he keeps his composure during these situations. Then a half hour later he's in the pit chatting away like it's another day at the office.
My hat is off to you sir

[MMPerk]

Re: What happened to the BEAR???

A couple of things we should consider...

We may never truly know what got the gear down...

The pulling of positive G's while pulling on the emergency release, a guardian angel riding along with John, it could have been one of these or a combination of all...or something else all together. But the most important fact of all...the gear did come down, and the Bear and it's driver will come back and race another day.

I do appreciate the differing views expressed here...please keep it clean and respectable. I'm sure that once the 'Bear Driver' gets settled he will share his thoughts with us all...either here on the teams website.

LP

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: What happened to the BEAR???

Another off the wall question and maybe you're the wrong guy to ask but with the shorter course (more time in the turns) has any though been given to go back to stock length outer (folding) wing panels to lower the wing loading? That is, if any can be found. I remember reading a few years back the the Dwelle's thought the wings on Critical Mass were cut to short (too high a wing loading) for the shorter course.

Ron, I can't really speak to the rest of the questions but if you think of the turns as horizontal climbs, the Rare Bear holds a pretty strong time to climb record... Yes her wings are shorter but she's very much lighter airframe than the corresponding clipped wing SF's... Different.. err.. cats so to speak..

Engine failure cause has yet to be determined, the engine was the Dwelle CM motor, same one as raced last year. Inspected out well and was determined OK to race (no damage from eating bondo)

Cooling, or lack thereof, during the landing gear problem may have led to the failure on Sunday. That will have to be determined.

Wayne

[stuntflyr]

Re: What happened to the BEAR???

Thanks for the info on the cuff, Wayne. Last year Bill Hickle thought they had the inlet problems figured out and may try it again in the future, that's why I asked. By the way which engine were they running, and do you know the status of the injected ceramic coated engine Lyle was working on? And maybe a boil off oil cooler system? Another off the wall question and maybe you're the wrong guy to ask but with the shorter course (more time in the turns) has any though been given to go back to stock length outer (folding) wing panels to lower the wing loading? That is, if any can be found. I remember reading a few years back the the Dwelle's thought the wings on Critical Mass were cut to short (too high a wing loading) for the shorter course. I felt that this year the team was a little less forthcoming with info although they certainly didn't have time to take many questions from us "tourists", and that's perfectly OK and understandable with me. Just wondering if Rod Dave John and company would be willing to share any future plans for the Bear without tipping of their competitors, especially the great 232 team. We all have our favorites but we also want great competition and sometimes secrecy is a part of that competition.

Thanks,

Ron

Hi Ron,
The ceramic job I hope will be completed, cool tech and very capable of making it live.
Boil off? I think it would've made oil temp overheat a non-issue. Doesn't it keep the oil temp at 212 until it runs out of coolant? Reason it wasn't done 20 years ago? O.M.S.
Long wings, it wasn't tried because only one was Lyle's, as I recall the other was in a long line of ownership changes after the Fornof's sold out.
Might work, might not. It went 418 with them and lots less streamlining and HP back in the old days.

I don't know nothin' about this airplane and nothin' about what the new owner is planning, I just type out of my butt.


Nice to see your posting informative and well thought out stuff, as usual.

[Randy Haskin]

Re: What happened to the BEAR???

Hopefully Mr. Penney will share his story with us. Call it - "Kahunas of steel".
I was in tears as soon as soon as he was on the ground - it amazes me how he keeps his composure during these situations. Then a half hour later he's in the pit chatting away like it's another day at the office.

What else should he do? Did you expect him to have shaky hands or be teary eyed at the "danger" of not being able to get his gear down?

Remember, Penney is a former military pilot and Vietnam vet. Over the course of his jet flying career, he's probably experienced numerous emergencies or situations that were equally or more stressful than just not geing able to get the gear down.

When someone has to deal with that kind of stress on a regular basis, they will naturally develop the ability to compartmentalize emotion and simply handle the emergency. Serious emergencies are part of the overall game, and most of the time a pilot's brain is too busy working in overdrive to fix the problem to even remember that he's scared or stressed.

So, while it may appear cavalier or surprising that he could be so calm after what appeared to be a pretty frightening emergency, that doesn't surprise me one bit.

[Inverted]

Re: What happened to the BEAR???

Cooling, or lack thereof, during the landing gear problem may have led to the failure on Sunday. That will have to be determined.

Wayne

That was going to be my guess. Especially with reports that Bear was overtemp when it landed. You never know. All it takes is one component to go out of specs just a few thousandths to have things go wrong. I think it says a lot for Dwelle motor to be raced on 2 seasons.

[dineega]

Re: What happened to the BEAR???

Nothing Mr. Penney does surprises me. It just continues to impress.

[Red]

Re: What happened to the BEAR???

Ron, I can't really speak to the rest of the questions but if you think of the turns as horizontal climbs, the Rare Bear holds a pretty strong time to climb record... Yes her wings are shorter but she's very much lighter airframe than the corresponding clipped wing SF's... Different.. err.. cats so to speak..


Wayne

Sorry Wayne, but you've got flawed logic here. Yes she holds the time to climb record, but a lap is completely different animal than a straight climb. You are not pulling 4+G constantly in a climb...if you do it is called a loop. G indicates a change in direction.

Lower wing loading, either with aspect ratio, area or lightened airframe does make a difference in how effeciently a wing creates lift. I'm not saying longer wings would be better, just trying help you understand the issue clearly so there is no more confusion.

[DWYER]

Re: What happened to the BEAR???

I can't believe all the metal that was sitting in the oil down the side of the Bear. Wow, that sucks. We were all happy to see John and the Bear down safely and we could catch our breath again. Well Done!

[Red]

Re: What happened to the BEAR???

Wow..thats some serious chunkage!! Too bad..I was really wanting to see her go fast.....

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: What happened to the BEAR???

Sorry Wayne, but you've got flawed logic here. Yes she holds the time to climb record, but a lap is completely different animal than a straight climb. You are not pulling 4+G constantly in a climb...if you do it is called a loop. G indicates a change in direction.

Lower wing loading, either with aspect ratio, area or lightened airframe does make a difference in how effeciently a wing creates lift. I'm not saying longer wings would be better, just trying help you understand the issue clearly so there is no more confusion.

I'm only repeating some of what I've heard said by her crew and engineers...

[Inverted]

Re: What happened to the BEAR???

Sorry Wayne, but you've got flawed logic here. Yes she holds the time to climb record, but a lap is completely different animal than a straight climb. You are not pulling 4+G constantly in a climb...if you do it is called a loop. G indicates a change in direction.

Lower wing loading, either with aspect ratio, area or lightened airframe does make a difference in how effeciently a wing creates lift. I'm not saying longer wings would be better, just trying help you understand the issue clearly so there is no more confusion.

That's true. You have no horizontal compnent of lift in a strait climb. Plus you are bleeding more energy in a turn.

[King]

Re: What happened to the BEAR???

I'm only repeating some of what I've heard said by her crew and engineers...

Gotta be careful what you repeat...........although some people may seem to be friends, they do sometimes talk in circles (it's all racing) and say what appears to be a true statement although it goes against simple physics and aero.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: What happened to the BEAR???

Gotta be careful what you repeat...........although some people may seem to be friends, they do sometimes talk in circles (it's all racing) and say what appears to be a true statement although it goes against simple physics and aero.

Long as the bear wins (and with a healthy engine, she always will) don't matter what anyone says!

[440_Magnum]

Re: What happened to the BEAR???

Long as the bear wins (and with a healthy engine, she always will) don't matter what anyone says!

Unless a Mustang also has a healthy engine....