RACE 15 "Furias"

[Red]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

the rules haven't discouraged one off's they have forcefully eliminated them with the changes made. Anyway, a whole other topic....

I look forward to Furias returning for sure.

The only rule I'm aware of is the 4500 lb. min weight. What others are there that have forcefully eliminated them?

This was my 27th year at Reno. I disagree the UL's are in trouble. This year was better than ever, one of the fastest on record and the most exciting race I can remember since '91. We might be in the midst of a rebirth of sorts.

I am a huge fan of innovation and pushing the envelope, but one can make a strong case both ways for the scratchbuilt Unlimiteds. Every last one has crashed and killed the pilot. Tsunami was the most refined (or constantly messed with depending on your view point) and even she was lost, albeit not at the races. Hawker, NA, Grumman etc. has LOADS of engineers to work out the stuff, these aren't great planes by accident! I'm not knocking the scratchbuilt's, but they don't exactly have a great track record.

I'm torn. I miss MAII, Tsunami etc. Part of me wants to see innovation and cutting edge tech, but is it worth the risk? The Super Sports seem to have taken up the slack there.

[MRussell]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

This was my 27th year at Reno. I disagree the UL's are in trouble. This year was better than ever, one of the fastest on record and the most exciting race I can remember since '91. We might be in the midst of a rebirth of sorts.

Wasn't the Unlimited field far short of being full? Qualifying was almost unnecessary aside from determining staging order, right?

[spacegrrrl]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

I think UL was looking like it was on a rebound this year. With the soft economy and gas prices where they are I think a lot of the 'casual" racers stayed home so the field might not have been as full as before.

That said, we saw some great UL racing. I still hope we eventually see some of the "one off" projects make it to the ramp. I seem to remember at least two very serious looking projects arounf jet wings and big round engines that could really shake things up!

Spacegrrrl

[J.SMITH]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

In talking to Robert Odegaad this year, he is hoping to have his "other" F2G ready by next year and would like to bring both to Reno next year. That said I don't know if he will race both or just bring them so we can drool a little bit. Furias and another Corsair, Looking good so far.

[Red]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

Wasn't the Unlimited field far short of being full? Qualifying was almost unnecessary aside from determining staging order, right?

There have been many years where the field has been less than full. How many times have you seen the Wildcat race? Every year it races it's a pretty good bet that it's not a full field cause he just barely makes it in. Go Wildcat!

My yardstick isn't the number of planes but the amount of healthy actual gold contending aircraft ready to on Sunday. This year we had 4 proven very fast airplanes and a couple more there to keep them honest. Thats good racing to me. How long was it that you could pick the winner with fairly good odds?

I'll take great racing over a parade anyday.

[Randy Haskin]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

one can make a strong case both ways for the scratchbuilt Unlimiteds. Every last one has crashed and killed the pilot.

Not "Pony Express".

Not the JP351.

[Red]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

Not "Pony Express".

Not the JP351.

Lol...was that a purpose built racer or a homebuilt that went racing?

[Apteryx]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

Not "Pony Express".
Not the JP351.

Not Wildfire

[ebutner]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

Not Wildfire

Can't crash that which does not fly.

[W J Pearce]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

Can't crash that which does not fly.

Sure you can!

[wyhdah]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

And have. I am hoping for a rebound.

[spacegrrrl]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

I don't buy the "every one off has crashed and killed its pilot" argument.

Tsunami's crash was unfortunate but not a condemnation of the design. In fact the flap linkage failure was particularly unfortunate as there was a new safer rework already planned. All indications were that the plane flew very well and could have continued to be very successfully raced.

Miss Ashley II's airframe failure occured in parts that duplicates of Mustang parts. (I'm assuming that we'd include her in this list)

The Pond racer was fire. Fire can happen in any racer, not just "one offs". Just look at the Super Corsair.

Building an unlimited racer from scratch is not a casual undertaking but clearly it can be done with good results.

Spacegrrrl

[Red]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

I don't buy the "every one off has crashed and killed its pilot" argument.

Tsunami's crash was unfortunate but not a condemnation of the design. In fact the flap linkage failure was particularly unfortunate as there was a new safer rework already planned. All indications were that the plane flew very well and could have continued to be very successfully raced.

Miss Ashley II's airframe failure occured in parts that duplicates of Mustang parts. (I'm assuming that we'd include her in this list)

The Pond racer was fire. Fire can happen in any racer, not just "one offs". Just look at the Super Corsair.

Building an unlimited racer from scratch is not a casual undertaking but clearly it can be done with good results.

Spacegrrrl

Hi Spacegrrrl

Nice to see you here a bit more again.

I agree Tsunami's crash was unfortunate...and sure was a bummer for me. I was/am really into that plane. Yes there was a fix planned. Some would argue that the constant tinkering had some part in the failure. The plane was never originally intended for flaps at all! The test pilot said not to use the flaps because they were unsafe that there was a problem with the accuracy of the AS indicator, and in his opinion the plane shouldn't be flown at all until fixed.

MAII's failure may have occured in a duplicate NA part, but it wasn't a NA part and in a non standard config!! Not realy an apples to apples comparison is it? Another favorite plane of mine. I was there.

The Pond Racer really hit home, I was there as well. I also wanted this one to work. I question the rationale of the center pod for safety aspect when the spanwise flow of the forward swept wing brought the fuel and fire directly there. Major bummer.

Let me ask you this....how many fatal UL crashes have there been with planes that weren't one-off's. I'll wait.

My point is...designing and building a race plane is a HUGE and daunting task...my hat is off to anyone who attempts it. I will always root for those type of people. MB for instance...nobody thought a small block Sea Fury could go that fast. He went against the grain and surprised alot of people. The same spirit is in the guys who do the one-off's. The fact remains that the large pools of engineers at NA, Grumman etc. had vastly more resources than are avaialble to anyone who has attempted this. I'm not belittling anybody's effort here, I wanted Tsunami and MAII to succeed possibly as much as the guys involved. I still think the heavy iron is better suited to this type of thing. I'm being hypocritical a bit here because I love seeing more scratchbuilt stuff race...as long as it is safe.

Thanks for the intelligent debate, it's nice to have that once in a while.

[FlyKidChris]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

Let me ask you this....how many fatal UL crashes have there been with planes that weren't one-off's. I'll wait.

Red,
That's a great post, but I have a quick answer to your question above. I was standing in the pits when Bill Speer in his "other" P-51 (Deja Vu, race #56?) crashed short of runway 8 at Stead in 1994. I, and many others, were witness to that tragic loss.
Chris

[Inverted]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

Fatal non one off crashes.... I hope for the sake of high numbers you are asking about JUST unlimiteds... Because the list would be huge if we included all classes I am sure.


Lets face it. One off designs have been the fatal vehicles in many many venue's. Race boats, Race cars, and planes. I feel sometimes we are too hard on one off race planes. I think relatively speaking the deaths related to one off prototype race planes is low when you look at cars/boats/trains whatever etc etc. Do I think building an unlimited race plane out of a factory warbird is safer?? Yes I do. But I love seeing one off designs I think it promotes the future of unlimited racing. If it can be found to go faster for cheaper using new technology I think we should be embracing it not criticizing.