RACE 15 "Furias"

[jarrodeu]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

...the Pond (all composite!) were all over the 4500 lb weight minimum.

I don't think so.

Jarrod

[John H]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

I don't buy the "every one off has crashed and killed its pilot" argument.

Tsunami's crash was unfortunate but not a condemnation of the design. In fact the flap linkage failure was particularly unfortunate as there was a new safer rework already planned. All indications were that the plane flew very well and could have continued to be very successfully raced.


Spacegrrrl

True. He extended the flaps above 150, and Skip told him not to fly it also. The anniversary was yesterday. I did hear that Speers had a physical problem during the Mayday as was suggested here.

John

[John]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

Thanks Will,

Can't help but but wonder what an "unlimited" developed by the Jon Sharp team would look like even with the 4500lb limit..

Also, how does Voodoo handle? What is the stall like in a modified Mustang as compared to the Yak?

[BJH]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

When will the rest of us know who is buying Furias?

[Red]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

Thanks Will,

Can't help but but wonder what an "unlimited" developed by the Jon Sharp team would look like even with the 4500lb limit..

Also, how does Voodoo handle? What is the stall like in a modified Mustang as compared to the Yak?

Will told me its the smoothest thing he's ever flown at race speed.

[Red]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

I don't think so.

Jarrod

You know you may be right. I seem to rememeber about 4K before fluids and pilot.

[Whiteside]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

On Voodoo Versus the Stock Mustang

Voodoo doesnt fly like a stock mustang in the ways youd think. I keep hearing it is the Version 3 of development of Dago, Strega then Race 5. Considering the stock canopy, I compared speeds and power settings of the other two and there is a chance that in full race trim,(Small canopy) Voodoo may be an improvement over the other two. I am just taking a WAG at this of course. probably just wishfull thinking since I hopefully will be in a good race with Danny Martin and Stevo next season.
ON HANDLING:
It requires very little trim change for change in airspeed and has alot of roll coupling. Meaning if the airplane is flown uncoordinated in yaw, it will develop a heavy wing requiring aileron input to maintain wings level or just rudder input to fly coordinated. At cruise speeds it feels less "Locked in" as a stock P51D, TF or C. The ailerons are always lighter than a stocker at any speed even with the servo tabbed trim tabs. At speeds above 300 Miles Indicated the airplane gets a more solid feel to it and the airplane feels near Sea Fury stable in yaw, pitch and roll at 400 MPH indicated. I saw about 410-420 MPH indicated before Voodoo's Turbine smooth Merlin said "SEE YA"! and I will say it was the smoothest, most pleasant engine airframe combination I have ever flown. Not pitchy, not yaw unstable and not heavy on roll stability. I was in heaven! I see why it has endured the test of time in overall use. If you were to go fly a Sea Fury and then a Stock P51D, you would reflect and see how much more improved the handling during maneuvering the Sea Fury is. It's a much later design. It has much more aero refinements. Not going to get into what is better or worse, just going to say that the Sea Fury makes short work of maneuvering flight. I have never taken off or landed the Fury so I cannot speak on that phase of flight. Voodoo by comparison to a stocker when talking about the traffic pattern is apples and apples until you leave about 145 MPH. I was taught to fly a D or a TF by Art and Dan Vance. They use 115 MPH as a speed to shoot for "Over the Fence". The stock airplanes have good visibility over the nose and good aileron control throughout the approach and landing phases using this speed. At less than this speed the tail starts to drop and the nose comes up a bit and you can feel that the airplane would rather be at the 115 MPH number. I found that this occurred on Voodoo below 140 MPH. Not sure if its a CG thing or clipped wings or tail incidence. When I flew the Collings C Model, I found that this occurred at about 110 KIAS or about 126 MPH which may indicate it has something to do with CG but I have not researched the CG's of the above mentioned P51's well enough to say. The sinkrate was very high on Voodoo compared to a stocker at a lower comparable speed. I'm honored that I can say that for racing, Voodoo would be my choice of aero mods,(Bring on the little canopy) for just everyday fun and practicality, A stock 51 like the Vance's Speedball Alice would be my choice. I wouldn't change a thing from the original design. They got it so right and the nostalgia part makes the love affair complete.

On Modifications:
Keep in mind that the most minor changes made to a design from CG to clipped wings and tail change these things in MAJOR ways. Also realize that the ONLY REASON they fly so well and tolerate our minor and major modifications to their airframes is because all of the design flight test hours given to a program. Sometimes that is on the battlefield and sometimes lives are lost so that many more will survive. This is what has made Reno Air Racing so successful all of these years. Don't think a civilian homebuilt flight test program will rival that. It just wont! I'm not saying we cannot adequately flight test a design for our uses but I am saying I'd feel more comfortable risking my life in a design with military or government dollars paying the nations finest to develop a design. I think it is difficult for a builder to be objective on the refinements(READ FIXES) to his blood sweat and tears that has become his lifes work.
I do herald individuals that take on a major project like that, heck my hat is off to a guy who can set out, build and fly a kitplane! That is a real accomplishment.
Will Whiteside

[forbergler]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

Thanks for the info Will. Very informative. I realize the direction of this thread changed quite a bit, but is there anything else you can share regarding Furias' new owner and race plans? We need every little bit we can get to hold us over til next Christmas, uh...I mean September.

[sugarkane]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

how about a Do 335 type of air plane ( or even a rebuilt Do 335 airframe ) with a composite wing, feathers and a pair of mild tune merlins....

hmm that would be a hell of a plane

from all accounts of allied pilots flying the 335's they could walk away from anything in the US airforce at will...

whos got some money to burn...

[Lance]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

how about a Do 335 type of air plane ( or even a rebuilt Do 335 airframe ) with a composite wing, feathers and a pair of mild tune merlins....

hmm that would be a hell of a plane

from all accounts of allied pilots flying the 335's they could walk away from anything in the US airforce at will...

whos got some money to burn...

I've heard rumblings about a project like this for the last few months now. I was in a conversation with someone in the pits that seemed knowledgeable about the project, plus he was a credible source, that I am almost ready to believe that such a project exists. IIRC The source said that all the parts have been shipped to an assembly location in Texas and the team was to start assembly as soon as they returned from Nevada.

[Apteryx]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

how about a Do 335 type of air plane ( or even a rebuilt Do 335 airframe ) with a composite wing, feathers and a pair of mild tune merlins....

hmm that would be a hell of a plane

from all accounts of allied pilots flying the 335's they could walk away from anything in the US airforce at will...

whos got some money to burn...

You should hook up with Juke, I'm sure he's got some ideas

[Inverted]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

Wake is a huge issue. I've felt it during certian formation exercises. And it can be bad depending on the plane producing the wake. I can agree that a plane half the weight of the big boys would get tossed around like a rag doll and given the "perfect" scenario would be fatal. But if there was enough people with gobs of money, they could split the class to make a 2k weight minimum unlimited prototype class. Its not like we dont have enough race classes already. But I guess its my mind thinking that I wish there were more race venue's around the country.

Lets hope we can get more racers into the sport. I am working hard on making 2009 my first year racing at Reno. I know a bunch of people are. Air Racing should be the biggest sport in the world, I know its the biggest in my world lol.

More category's, more locations, more racers!!!

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

You should hook up with Juke, I'm sure he's got some ideas

Easy... I'm going to quote a pretty notable racer this year talking about guys like Jukka... "He's a dreamer, but then, aviation is driven by dreamers"..

Just cause Jukka's native language is not "Engrish" and he's maybe a bit, left of center..

Guys like him have driven aviation since day one!

Who would have believed that two Bike mechanics would figure it out after all!

Would we have been lauding them with "go Wilber, Go Orivllle" had the net been alive? Or would we have been saying.. yea.. right..

[sugarkane]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

You should hook up with Juke, I'm sure he's got some ideas

6000+ hp in a plane with half the frontal area of the bear!!


been flying one in x plane 9 with a 30% reduction in weight and 3000 hp in each end and other wise stock airframe...

she'll settle in to 419 kts in the pylons all day long and reach around 450 kts in a straight line...
no clipped wings, or feathers and a great big radiator hanging out of the belly

the guys at the doriner factory in Germany rebuilt one a few years ago for an american museum, wonder if they'd wana help build a racer and maybe the fastest thing with a prop and a few pistons every to fly...?

[Red]

Re: RACE 15 "Furias"

6000+ hp in a plane with half the frontal area of the bear!!


been flying one in x plane 9 with a 30% reduction in weight and 3000 hp in each end and other wise stock airframe...

she'll settle in to 419 kts in the pylons all day long and reach around 450 kts in a straight line...
no clipped wings, or feathers and a great big radiator hanging out of the belly

the guys at the doriner factory in Germany rebuilt one a few years ago for an american museum, wonder if they'd wana help build a racer and maybe the fastest thing with a prop and a few pistons every to fly...?

I think there is something like that in the works already.