BD-10 accidents..a mystery ?

[AirDOGGe]

Re: BD-10 accidents..a mystery ?

According to the website, they will have some kits available soon...

This is what it says of the Bede-6...

BD-6

...The prototype (BD-6) is slowly going through restoration. Plans are being developed on the computer and are approximately 80 percent complete...... Only a basic information kit is available at this time. When the project is totally complete, the plans and parts may become available.

We have completed the BD-6 drawings on the CAD system and are going to make complete BD-6 material Kits available.

You can contact them for more information via this page:

http://www.bedecorp.com/contact.htm

[TOR_DP]

Re: BD-10 accidents..a mystery ?

As someone with about 150 BD-5B hours I can tell you it is like anyother plane on the planet: Its exactly as safe as the pilot.

Contrary to rumors the driveshaft system is a good design and works well.

There are structural issues with the BD-5s design:

1. The rudder mounting bracket tended to crack and has since been re-designed. This was the real problem with the BD-10, the rudders were simply insufficently connected to the airframe for the flight loading.

2. The tubular spar is nice and simple and about as stiff as a damp noodle, the fix for this was developed by the bede-micro guys and consists of an insert for the spar to provide much more stiffness especially at the root. The wing flexures are what cause oil-canning in the skins and excessive wear on the ribs.

3. The fold at the leading edge of the Bede provided skins was made (very cheaply) by Bede with a 1 pass on a brake, making a giant crease that isnt part of the original airfoil and acts like a full length stall strip. The cure was new skins made with mulitple passes in the brake to restore the original airfoil.

Oh, and Bede ran out of money before he could send the 3,000 or so missing engines to customers.

The plane I flew/worked on had these mods and was one of the best flying aircraft I've ever flown. The Burt Rutan (He worked for Bede in the '70s) influence is felt in the control harmony and the stability of the thing. For being so short coupled it was VERY stable.

And fast.

You had to be thinking way ahead (like any other high performance plane).

It stalled like a Cherokee at gross and spun like a Decathalon.

We used the Continental GR-36 rotary engine (which is still being made by somebody else for drone work...) which made 95HP at takeoff and weighed 105LBS ready to fly.

So while Jimbo was all about the benjamins, he at least on the BD-5 project had some great help.

And IMHO made a great plane (with minor adjustments...).

[First time Juke]

Re: BD-10 accidents..a mystery ?

As someone with about 150 BD-5B hours I can tell you it is like anyother plane on the planet: Its exactly as safe as the pilot.

---------------

Oh, and Bede ran out of money before he could send the 3,000 or so missing engines to customers.

The plane I flew/worked on had these mods and was one of the best flying aircraft I've ever flown. The Burt Rutan (He worked for Bede in the '70s) influence is felt in the control harmony and the stability of the thing.

-------snip--------

So while Jimbo was all about the benjamins, he at least on the BD-5 project had some great help.

Great information Jerry !

150 hrs with a Bede-5 is a lot.

Bede-5 has made a strong impression to many. It is the fastest aeroplane still in its class ( under 661 lbs ).
I think Hirth-company went buncrupty before able to deliver any engines...Bede-6 flew with the intented BD-5 38 hp engine...was 38 hp too little for bede-5 ?

Burt Rutan is known for well flying and bizarre/odd aeroplanes. I bet his reputation has not come for nothing.

BTW: Lightest known ultralite ( 55 kg ) Birdman TL-1 flew with just 15 hp engine McCulloch 101


Juke

[TOR_DP]

Re: BD-10 accidents..a mystery ?

38hp is pretty shy for the 5...

I'd say that 60HP would probably be around the minimum depending on pilot weight. (Me being a.. er... larger pilot)

The Continental engine was a development from the Norton motorcycle rotary engines, which also tried to market the engine. It seems to be popular in drones now.

Me and the full plane rolled on to the scales at 772lbs.

Which is heavy for a 5, but I'm 225LBS of that (at the time).

I'll hafta dig up some pictures.

[First time Juke]

Re: BD-10 accidents..a mystery ?

38hp is pretty shy for the 5...

I'd say that 60HP would probably be around the minimum depending on pilot weight. (Me being a.. er... larger pilot)

The Continental engine was a development from the Norton motorcycle rotary engines, which also tried to market the engine. It seems to be popular in drones now.

Me and the full plane rolled on to the scales at 772lbs.

Which is heavy for a 5, but I'm 225LBS of that (at the time).

I'll hafta dig up some pictures.

I was 230 lbs last winter.

The world fastest under 661 lbs FAI record holder was 65 hp powered...pilot is austrian.

How much does the driveshaft weight ?

I want to know if 2 x 50 hp Limbach ( L550E weight 36 lbs) powered fan propel plane could go under 550 lbs with pilot...and go 280-300 mph..or if the I am in the right ball park with it.

rgds,

Juke

[First time Juke]

Re: BD-10 accidents..a mystery ?

We used the Continental GR-36 rotary engine (which is still being made by somebody else for drone work...) which made 95HP at takeoff and weighed 105LBS ready to fly.


And IMHO made a great plane (with minor adjustments...).

How fast was it ?

[TOR_DP]

Re: BD-10 accidents..a mystery ?

Well... I went 278MPH (or so) S&L at 6,500ASL on a nice fall day. 325MPH (or so) in a dive. Nervous with the long wings on.... If the Jet GAW wings were on I'd have no problem. But, bad spin mode with GAW-1 airfoil and slightly lower S&L speed with the trailing cusp. Fun plane to do Cuban 8s in. Easy on the eyes. The rotary was thirsty. I think 450MI was range with reserves... Getting old, gonna hafta dig up the log book...

[First time Juke]

Re: BD-10 accidents..a mystery ?

Excellent result...you gained roughly 22% speed by adding 32% power ( compared to the record braking austrian Bede-5 ). I wonder if you added another 30 hp into the Bede-5 would you have gained only 12 % more speed or less. Aerodynamical changes along with the power increase would have abled another 20% speed increase.

How much roughly would you say the pusher props shaft/gear arrangement weighs extra compared to "normal" firewall mounted tractor layout..can you describe ...20 lbs 30 lbs ?

If one used a 50 hp Limbach on it the gear would actually be needed since the 2-stroke engine has no reduction gear. So all in all compared to your 105 lbs 95hp engine..that engine with lost 45 hps would also reduce weight some 70 lbs-100 lbs ( and your kite could be FAI 661 lbs class eligible ) even when you fly it with 225 lbs weight..with limited fuel of course. Cooling could be an issue..Limbach L550E is aircooled.

I wonder how much the retractable gearsystem in BEDE-5 weighs...100 lbs ?

[First time Juke]

MACHBUSTER II ?

Here is my MACH 1 mover design.

Feel free to "shoot it down ".

This has 3 feet more length and 3 feet less span than BD-10 had.

What kinda engines in theory could go supersonic and would be not too expensive FJ33 any good ? ( How abou FJ22 or FJ44 ? )

I heard P&W 610 F is not good for the mach 1 speeds.

[Cloudchaser427]

Re: BD-10 accidents..a mystery ?

There is a red BD-5 sittiing on the roof of the Sage Brush Cantina in Calabassas Calif if you're in the area and just want to see one.

Cloudchaser

[First time Juke]

Re: TOMCAT II ?

I'd like to see it.

I was able to tweak my design smaller than BD-10 was.

[AirDOGGe]

Re: BD-10 accidents..a mystery ?

Just make sure to get a REALLY good aircraft structures engineer to design the innards of your fast, highly-loaded jet. Bede was talented and designed some good planes before the BD-10, yet even he failed at it. It's relatively easy to design the OUTside of a plane.

[First time Juke]

Re: BD-10 accidents..a mystery ?

Just make sure to get a REALLY good aircraft structures engineer to design the innards of your fast, highly-loaded jet. Bede was talented and designed some good planes before the BD-10, yet even he failed at it. It's relatively easy to design the OUTside of a plane.

I just found out that the engines are $500-600 K a piece. Might be premature to design all inside of it at this stage.
But I have figured some element of its structure too just to make sure it'll do what it was designed for.
There would have to be outstanding aerodynamists too.

Here are pretty cheap engines; http://www.controller.com/listingsde...B/1191043.htm?

[First time Juke]

Re: BD-10 accidents..a mystery ?

Here is my ultimate Jules Verne kinda day dream.

This could be 3 times as hazardous as BD-10 ever..or any lite homebuilt jet.

A pulse jet / ducted fan hybrid.

A " Buffy " !

http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/attachments/wood-construction/11871d1303122082-homebuilt-jet-wood-reporters-aaagm-1vector10ramjet4.jpg

[tigercat200]

Re: BD-10 accidents..a mystery ?

I know this is an old thread but does anyone else remember the BD-2? It was a modified Schweizer 2-32 glider with a de-tuned 210 HP Continental engine, if memory serves. Jim Bede had it at Oshkosh, or maybe it was Rockford, collecting money for a round the world flight. As far as I recall, all he did was what he usually did..............take other peoples money deliver nothing. Even with his history people still line up to give him money. Go figure.