Capt Dave on Hudson crash

[kensantafe]

Capt Dave has a look at the crash

http://flightlevel390.blogspot.com/

Ken

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Capt Dave on Hudson crash

Capt Dave has a look at the crash

http://flightlevel390.blogspot.com/

Ken

Wow....

[kiwiracefan]

Re: Capt Dave on Hudson crash

I totally agree wayne... wow very cool blog, thanks for the link

[champ19]

Re: Capt Dave on Hudson crash

Yes, very insightful and well written blog. Thanks very much for the link. Looking at the archives list, I am going to go blind on this.
Not many guys out there taking the time to do this as well as Capt. Dave. Terrific.

[Leo]

Re: Capt Dave on Hudson crash

Main lesson to me is no matter what happens, fly the airplane. He really had his head out to see the big picture and not simply react, and react wrongly.
Wow.

[SkyvanDelta]

Re: Capt Dave on Hudson crash

The flight computer voice should be saying to the Captain:

"You have major problems. Your going to be on the ground in 2 minutes. Look for something flat 5 miles out because that's where you'll be landing. Pay attention to landing the plane safely. Best of Luck. Goodbye."

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Capt Dave on Hudson crash

Somebody asked earlier if his sailplane experience played a factor.. as a non-pilot but student of same, I'd have to say, it simply had to. He seemed to have a very prudent grasp of energy management.. You have this much altitude above earth, you can go this far... go where it is safest.. He did, we all know the story.

I can't remember an accident in recent memory where the outcome was as good as this... No matter where the final stop was.

Hero?

Relative term, he's certainly one of mine!

[lowpasskid]

Re: Capt Dave on Hudson crash

Hero in my book!just what we needed in these hard/troubling times.
I am a wanna be pilot/student/read everything/etc...and say
GOOD JOB! and he is a local boy to boot!(i'm from the bay area)
RUSH(canadian rock band)has a song called "nobody's hero"
that talk's about people we call hero's that are not.
my 2 cent's worth.I mean NO disrespect to what other people
deem as hero's,again my 2 cent's.
Ric Taylor

[dvddude]

Re: Capt Dave on Hudson crash

Somebody asked earlier if his sailplane experience played a factor.. as a non-pilot but student of same, I'd have to say, it simply had to. He seemed to have a very prudent grasp of energy management..

You would be surprised how much emphasis there is on energy management in the airline industry. It's not so much about deadsticking an Airbus or Boeing, but about being able to put the airplane in the correct position at the correct airspeed and in the correct configuration. Every time you get cleared a visual approach, you are, in essence, doing a "sort-of" power off energy management exercise to get the plane on the ground with minimal use of power. This is very important because the less thrust you use, the less fuel you burn, and the more your company will remain profitable.

To outsiders of airline type flying, I think most of you would be surprised how much we use energy management every single day we fly, whether it be for visual approaches or hitting an "energy gate" on a complicated STAR such as into LAX. Whether most Airline pilots realize it or not, we deal with energy management issues every single time we fly. I think most professional FAR 121 and FAR 135 Airline pilots have a very acute awareness of energy and how to use it to their advantage. IMO, any one of us could have been in that US Air Captain's shoes, and frankly, I think 99% of us would have done the same thing. This is not to take away from Captain Sully's adroit handling of this EP, but I think the vast majority of Captains would have had a similar outcome. When you get to be an Airline Captain, it takes many, many years of experience and expertise to get to that point.

To assume that a person of his experience, in his position, wouldn't have the wherewithal or presence of mind to do the same thing and have the same outcome, is IMO, disingenuous. Let's give some credit to the rest of the Professional aviators who fly safely 24/7, but yet never get recognition unless something goes wrong. Trust me, there are LOTS of very good things that happen that never make the news, or get any public attention and never leave the cockpit.

As an example, I know a Captain who literally saved the lives of almost 150 people when the plane he was flying was on the very edge of losing control and packing it into the ground. He was literally, within a 1/2 second of becoming a large smoking hole in the ground. It was such a serious incident, that the FAA, NTSB, and DOT had an emergency meeting and actually thought about doing a worldwide grounding of this type of airplane due to a potential design flaw. Boeing test engineers flew the same exact profile in the simulator, gathered from the flight and data recorders recovered from the mishap aircraft. Every single Boeing test pilot crashed the simulator, without exception, when put in this scenario. Everything turned out fine in the end, and new parts and maintenance and flight operations practices were enacted, which greatly mitigated this danger to not ever being a factor again. Did the Captain ever get any public recognition for the 150 lives he literally saved? No. Did the traveling public realize how close they came to death that day. No. Did the company realize what a hero this Captain was and how he averted 1 Billion (not a misprint) dollars in damages, lawsuits and revenue loss from this potential tragic crash. Yes. My point is, there are Heroes every day in the Airline industry, but the vast majority of the public is never aware of it. That is actually not a bad thing, but I'm just saying, let's give credit where credit is due. You take any professional Part 121 or 135 Air Carrier Captain, and put them in the same scenario, and they would have had the same outcome 99% of the time.

Getting to the position of being a Captain with a major airline is no accident. Having that awesome responsibility is not something that is taken lightly by either the Pilot or the Airline. A person doesn't get to be a Captain with a major airline by just existing - they must continually prove themselves, through years of checkrides, training, experience, and judgement/decision-making. People who can't handle a scenario like what happened in New York, get weeded out pretty quickly and never get to upgrade to Captain with the majors.

I mention all of this, not to take away any credit or accomplishments from Captain Sully. What he did is extraordinary and almost beyond belief. I think he did an extremely fantastic job, given the difficult circumstances he had to deal with, but to say that any other Captain with a similar background could not have done the same, is simply inaccurate. I firmly believe that any Professional Pilot, with at least some moderate experience in the plane, could have had the same outcome, regardless of prior sailplane experience or not.

As an aside, for those of you that are curious - yes, I have practiced a few times in the simulator, of an all engine flameout and trying to deadstick it back to the runway. As long as you have altitude, it's actually not terribly difficult to recover it back to the airport. If it happens at low altitude, on approach, you can generally make the runway. If it happens at low altitude, right after takeoff, you are screwed. However, you do have a lot of information available to you in the cockpit to let you know if you can make it to the runway, or have to ditch it somewhere outside of the airport.

Sorry for the soapbox dialogue, I just wanted to get that off my chest!

-DVDdude, Captain with a major air carrier

[dvddude]

Re: Capt Dave on Hudson crash

Main lesson to me is no matter what happens, fly the airplane. He really had his head out to see the big picture and not simply react, and react wrongly.
Wow.

This is fundamental and something that is taught at the very beginning of flight training. There is a famous quote that Bob Hoover said once, and I can't remember exactly what it was, but something like, "You always fly through a crash" or words to that effect. Basically, he's saying that just because you crash, doesn't mean you stop flying, or, in other words, always fly the plane until it has zero airspeed.

Those words could not have been more truer, especially in this case!

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Capt Dave on Hudson crash

Thanks for sharing! This is an issue very close to those 1000's of us who trust the airplanes and our tusted friends who control them to sheapard us to where we want to go whenever we want to go there daily (see how spoiled we are!)

I think you guys do a great job in what must become, a day to day challenge. Sometimes, one of you gets the pork stretched very thin and they manage to comeout on top, boxes are OK, Pax all walking...

Damn...

Truly, there has to be a god and by that statement, feel free to start a movement to remove me from moderator/admin stauts.. can''t help but see it daily, can't stop myself from sharing... it is what it is...

[dvddude]

Re: Capt Dave on Hudson crash

Thanks for sharing! This is an issue very close to those 1000's of us who trust the airplanes and our tusted friends who control them to sheapard us to where we want to go whenever we want to go there daily (see how spoiled we are!)

I think you guys do a great job in what must become, a day to day challenge. Sometimes, one of you gets the pork stretched very thin and they manage to comeout on top, boxes are OK, Pax all walking...

Damn...

Truly, there has to be a god and by that statement, feel free to start a movement to remove me from moderator/admin stauts.. can''t help but see it daily, can't stop myself from sharing... it is what it is...

Thanks for the accolades, Wayne, but I was not saying that for self-aggrandizement. I just wanted to put a little perspective on the situation and let people know there are many, many unsung heroes out there, many of which I get to fly with every day! Some of the things I've seen have been truly eye-watering and inspirational and I just wanted some other people to get the credit also. Again, you've only seen one Captain Sully. I guarantee you, there are 10,000 Captain Sullys out there flying around passengers safely everyday! The fact that there hasn't been a fatality in the airline business for the last 3 years is no accident. A lot of that is due to pilots flying safely, expertly, and professinally. It's a mentality and a culture that is pervasive within the airlines.

I think you do a fantastic job of being the forum's mod/admin! I can't think of anyone else who does more for this sport than you, Wayne. I think I speak for the rest of us when I say, we all appreciate your efforts for what you do here. I hope you never think of quitting what you are doing! Keep up the great work!

[Skyracer]

Re: Capt Dave on Hudson crash

Here's a little something I came across. This is about the most "Right On" thing I have heard from a politician ever.

Referring to then president elect Obama's telephone call congratulating Captain Sullenberger and invitating him to the inaguration, Sullenberger told Mr. Obama, "Me and my crew, we were just doing our job." On Monday, Mr. Obama told reporters, "It made me think, if everybody did their job, whatever that job was, as well as that pilot did his job, we'd be in pretty good shape."

Well spoken Mr. Obama.

And Wayne, let me echo dvddude's comments on this board and your commitment to providing this forum.

[Leo]

Re: Capt Dave on Hudson crash

Nicely put DVDDUDE!
I was taught the "art" of flying a sailplane by a kind of hippy-ish dude that had a feel for the "zen" of it all and really inspired to enjoy it and perfect it. He pulled out a few squeakers that I saw, sometimes you would just cringe and close your eyes and his finess would save the day..
I was taught emergency procedures and off-airport landings by an airline pilot. I don't think he ever had a "real" emergency. He was so organized, so precise and so far ahead of the aircraft that if the wings fell off he would have said "no problem", done the right thing and saved it. Very professional. I owe him an enormous dept, for after a few hours (and many landings, approaches and aborted tows) the worst part of an off airport landing for me was taking the ship apart and trucking it home.