What if 20 instead of 10

[taglialavore]

Some people will say "look at this stupid guy what is he writing", but I´m thinking about, doubling the laps around the pylons in Unlimited class. The idea is to air race 20 rounds instead of 10 for example.
You know there are 3 to 5 racers in the pole position and the rest. But how long they last? Do they last 20 rounds around the course? It would be interesting to see how the rest approaches the "almost always firsts".
Of course it will imply more fuel, COG position, and so on... Well, this so on is what I´m looking for. What are the consecuences of lenghtening the racing time. May be it results more atractive for the people.
I just want to know why the race is 10 laps instead of 20 laps. Sometimes I feel like the race lasts almost what the strongers last.
In this other way they should easy the throttle.
I can stand any insult, I don´t mind. This is what I´m feeling, and may be you can change my foolish ideas. Thank you.

[JET1]

no way.....

Some people will say "look at this stupid guy what is he writing", but I´m thinking about, doubling the laps around the pylons in Unlimited class. The idea is to air race 20 rounds instead of 10 for example.
You know there are 3 to 5 racers in the pole position and the rest. But how long they last? Do they last 20 rounds around the course? It would be interesting to see how the rest approaches the "almost always firsts".
Of course it will imply more fuel, COG position, and so on... Well, this so on is what I´m looking for. What are the consecuences of lenghtening the racing time. May be it results more atractive for the people.
I just want to know why the race is 10 laps instead of 20 laps. Sometimes I feel like the race lasts almost what the strongers last.
In this other way they should easy the throttle.
I can stand any insult, I don´t mind. This is what I´m feeling, and may be you can change my foolish ideas. Thank you.

we have been doing this a long time and what we do works best....for the fans and the planes. 3 words---Mojave endurance race....total failure. cross country races---total failure....

[AirDOGGe]

Re: What if 20 instead of 10

I'm thinking that the extra stress these rare aircraft (and their pilots) would have to endure by doubling the laps would not be a good thing.

There might not be anyone left to complete a 20 lap gold race!

If it were more like NASCAR, where you can pretty much build an all-new machine to race every year, then things might be different.

[taglialavore]

Re: What if 20 instead of 10

Do you think so? I´m not talking about 2hs like Mojave, it would be 15 minutes. Instead of 120-140" of manifold pressure, reduce it to 80-100"?? The engines would support better the punishment, and may be it results in a more even race, considering the positions of the contestants.
I declare that I follow unlimiteds air racing since around 1970 and I´m afraid I know almost nothing about it.

[JET1]

when you have a mustang in your hand...

Do you think so? I´m not talking about 2hs like Mojave, it would be 15 minutes. Instead of 120-140" of manifold pressure, reduce it to 80-100"?? The engines would support better the punishment, and may be it results in a more even race, considering the positions of the contestants.
I declare that I follow unlimiteds air racing since around 1970 and I´m afraid I know almost nothing about it.

you are not going to back off......It took a long time for me to understand the real way to race.....go to reno have fun fly your plane without the restrictions put on it by the feds...BUT DON'T BREAK ANYTHING cause you wont win enough to pay for it. Last place and second to last place are just as fun as winning the gold!
IMHO of course

[T.F.]

Re: What if 20 instead of 10

This is an interesting discussion topic. More laps would change the whole method and strategy of a race. In '07 the pilot of "Specline Special" claimed he could have passed the T-2 given 4 or 5 more laps (or maybe it was the T-2 pilot that said that).
The Gold Unlimiteds have mapped out there programs for the existing number of laps using slide rules and experience. But more laps for Sport or T-6 could make for interesting developments during a heat.
Any extension of a heat race would most likely result in less speed.

[Bubba]

Re: What if 20 instead of 10

GO FAST FLY LOW TURN LEFT

GO SLOW MAKE IT LAST TURN RIGHT

SOMETHINGS NOT RIGHT

[taglialavore]

Re: What if 20 instead of 10

Just thinking in loud voice. Surely this topic was treated somewhere before and a lot.
If you add 5 more laps (for example), you should reduce MAP a bit, that way you are managing the power to last more. And all the racers can feel they have a chance to win. You find racers with engines that lasts only a race or less, or 2-3 races, then a lot of money to repair it.
Let´s put it in another way. Why don´t limit mechanically the MAP, for example, to 100"?
The Merlins and the W3350´s are starting to suffer of spare parts existences. And what are the involved people doing about it?.
Rare Bear, Dago Red, Voodoo, Dreadnought, and many others, were there, almost every year, along my life, and I don´t want to see (just to pick one) Rare Bear sitting in a hangar waiting if someone discovers what engine to mount on it.
You can say I´m conservative, yes. I hope to be understood.

[Kahuna]

Re: What if 20 instead of 10

Would a 20 lap race be fun to watch ?
Today the big guys (Bear, Dago, Strega, 232 etc.) go for it all and there is nothing in this world that compares to a Race Merlin at high rpm, high pitch and unearthly mainfold pressure. Would it be fun to see them cruising around the field with 375 mph just to make them last 20 laps ?
I don´t think so !

Willy

[racingjoe27]

Re: What if 20 instead of 10

Just thinking in loud voice. Surely this topic was treated somewhere before and a lot.
If you add 5 more laps (for example), you should reduce MAP a bit, that way you are managing the power to last more. And all the racers can feel they have a chance to win. You find racers with engines that lasts only a race or less, or 2-3 races, then a lot of money to repair it.
Let´s put it in another way. Why don´t limit mechanically the MAP, for example, to 100"?
The Merlins and the W3350´s are starting to suffer of spare parts existences. And what are the involved people doing about it?.
Rare Bear, Dago Red, Voodoo, Dreadnought, and many others, were there, almost every year, along my life, and I don´t want to see (just to pick one) Rare Bear sitting in a hangar waiting if someone discovers what engine to mount on it.
You can say I´m conservative, yes. I hope to be understood.

I like strategy but theres a reason its called unlimited. I think placing a 100" MAP limit is, well doing just that, limiting. Would they change the name to "Limiteds?"

I already dont like the 4500lb rule. I know Dave Morss has a plane on his website that was built for unlimited racing and it has been eliminated by the weight rule. The mach buster would be underweight if in flying condition. Also Darryl Greenamyer claims to have a design to trump the competition, but not enough sponsorship to build it.

Again i like strategy, but dont take away from the claim of being the last true motor sport.

[taglialavore]

Re: What if 20 instead of 10

OK, I rub out what I wrote about limiting the MAP. But still hold on the question of incresing the number of laps a bit .

[Red]

Re: What if 20 instead of 10

I know all the round engine guys would love to see a 100" limit! Most of them don't make any were near that...lol

For my 2 cents, I'd rather see a balls out sprint than an attrition race.

[BellCobraIV]

Re: What if 20 instead of 10

I know all the round engine guys would love to see a 100" limit! Most of them don't make any were near that...lol

For my 2 cents, I'd rather see a balls out sprint than an attrition race.

If, You went to a twenty or even fifteen lap race the 4360's would rule the world.

[Lockheed Bob]

Re: What if 20 instead of 10

After some research I came up with this.Cleveland Air Races,Thompson Trophy, 1946-1949. 1946: 10 laps/30mile course/300miles/speed 373MPH. 1947: 20laps/15mile course/300miles/speed 396MPH. 1948: 20laps/15mile course/300miles/speed 383MPH. 1949: 15laps/15mile course/225miles/speed 397MPH. Of course is was lengthier than Reno and speed less but the fans got their money worth. And yes the 4360 P&W won the most. I was there during those days & it was fun. I didn't carry the speeds out in the decimals but close enough for government work.

[taglialavore]

Re: What if 20 instead of 10

And yes the 4360 P&W won the most. I was there during those days & it was fun. I didn't carry the speeds out in the decimals but close enough for government work.[/QUOTE]

If I understand well, they run lengthier races and that was the way in those days, and all enjoyed and... why they are today running ten laps around 9 miles course aprox., what are the arguments?.
My reasoning is aiming to lower the speed a little, not limited, but it´s up to the racer if he want´s to get the checkered flag.
I see that the last Reno was a fairly good one for the v12´s, but it is not the trend. I also see there are fewer of them every passing year.
For what I grasp the 4360 was very good in endurance.
Nevertheless, the 4360 won´t fit in a Mustang, so which is the escape?
Better look to other side?