Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

[johnnyrace]

I see on the Dago Red website there are some new photos and notes...I was surprised to see in the "Note from Steve" that they intend to go for the 3 km speed record when she is flying again...Dago going faster will certainly make things interesting in the future....YIKES!!!

[JET1]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

one of Franks goals was to get his record back....

[t-dub]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

one of Franks goals was to get his record back....

Frank never owned the 3km record, only the 15km..............

[stuntflyr]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

He still owns the 15KM record.

[grampi]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

I've been wondering why team Dago has waited so long to go after the 3K record. Back in the days of the mouse motors Dago probably could've bested the record by a good 30-40 MPH. I've heard Dago's top speed was somewhere in the neighborhood of 575-600 MPH. I don't know what they're capable of now, but it must be close to that.

[flyingjibus]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

I've been wondering why team Dago has waited so long to go after the 3K record. Back in the days of the mouse motors Dago probably could've bested the record by a good 30-40 MPH. I've heard Dago's top speed was somewhere in the neighborhood of 575-600 MPH. I don't know what they're capable of now, but it must be close to that.

Grampi, I mean no disrespect when I say this, but why do you keep asking the same question? We went over this last year about this time. and this same discussion has come up in a couple current threads.

Beating the Bears record by 30mph would be absolutly insane. At the current speeds these planes are at getting another 10mph out of them is a feat of magic.

There is an incredible amount of work that has to go into making an attempt at the 3k record. It is not a "get the plane in the air, point it towards the ground, and measure off 3k with a stopwatch" sort of thing. There are several runs that are averaged, intervals of time that cannot be exceeded between each pass. Max altitude ceilings that cannot be exceeded, all sorts of stuff. It takes a whole lot of things going absolutely perfect to pull it off. If you want some more insight into it, read the Lyle Shelton/Rare Bear book that just came out, there is a whole chapter on it.

I have no doubt that Frank and Dago will make an attempt at that record.
IF, and I stress IF, Dago beats that record, it will not be by more than 10mph.

I love Dago and all the other super stangs but you seem to give Dago this God like speed potential.

During the Seven wars (early 90's battles between Bear and Strega) Strega had just as much speed potential as Dago has ever had, and Lyle had no problems beating Tiger half the time.

Dago can be a fast mustang, there is no doubt about that. I watched that 500+ lap and can tell you it was SCREAMING , But the changes in course measurement and such at the time means that number can not just be compared to the 485+ laps that Tiger and Lyle were turning back then and have it be said that Dago is 20mph faster.

The Rare Bear is an incredible machine and that thing is stupid fast. I have watched it blow by Superstangs like they were standing still. It could be the fastest piston engine platform created to date. But.....

Nothing is impossible. I would love to see Dago set a new record, It would be fantastic for the sport. And again I am not trying to lecture you or anything like that, I mean for this to be a friendly and informative response. You asked why Dago has waited so long and this is your answer.

[taglialavore]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

almost 600mph? hummmm, 0,8 Mach propeller driven? hummmm
turbine with scimitar blades fan? who knows?
I don´t know if the Merlin will stand such punishment, doubt it.
Nevertheless I wish it would happens, Dago Red deserves it.
IMHO

[Shawn Aro]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

It was attempeted but Dago had some mishaps during the run back in 1984 during the record attemped Shawn

[JET1]

and he wants to ensure that...

He still owns the 15KM record.

and maybe put a few others under his belt.

[grampi]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

Grampi, I mean no disrespect when I say this, but why do you keep asking the same question? We went over this last year about this time. and this same discussion has come up in a couple current threads.

Beating the Bears record by 30mph would be absolutly insane. At the current speeds these planes are at getting another 10mph out of them is a feat of magic.

There is an incredible amount of work that has to go into making an attempt at the 3k record. It is not a "get the plane in the air, point it towards the ground, and measure off 3k with a stopwatch" sort of thing. There are several runs that are averaged, intervals of time that cannot be exceeded between each pass. Max altitude ceilings that cannot be exceeded, all sorts of stuff. It takes a whole lot of things going absolutely perfect to pull it off. If you want some more insight into it, read the Lyle Shelton/Rare Bear book that just came out, there is a whole chapter on it.

I have no doubt that Frank and Dago will make an attempt at that record.
IF, and I stress IF, Dago beats that record, it will not be by more than 10mph.

I love Dago and all the other super stangs but you seem to give Dago this God like speed potential.

During the Seven wars (early 90's battles between Bear and Strega) Strega had just as much speed potential as Dago has ever had, and Lyle had no problems beating Tiger half the time.

Dago can be a fast mustang, there is no doubt about that. I watched that 500+ lap and can tell you it was SCREAMING , But the changes in course measurement and such at the time means that number can not just be compared to the 485+ laps that Tiger and Lyle were turning back then and have it be said that Dago is 20mph faster.

The Rare Bear is an incredible machine and that thing is stupid fast. I have watched it blow by Superstangs like they were standing still. It could be the fastest piston engine platform created to date. But.....

Nothing is impossible. I would love to see Dago set a new record, It would be fantastic for the sport. And again I am not trying to lecture you or anything like that, I mean for this to be a friendly and informative response. You asked why Dago has waited so long and this is your answer.

Thanks for the info, and I'm well aware of how difficult it is to break Bear's record, but if there's any plane(s) that can do it, it's Dago or Strega. From what I've heard, all 3 of these planes are capable of going considerably faster than Bear's current record of 528 MPH. Now Bear's climb record, that's another story. I don't think that'll ever be broken.....

[Cloudchaser427]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

I would love to see the Bear come back out and beat it's own record as I know it could. Back when they set this record they had many issues and a basic stock engine. If they were to complete some of the wing and airframe mods the team has discussed and run a good hard running race engine, nothing will ever touch them.
I would love to see Dago go for a record run and better yet see them both run for the record on the same day. I would travel to watch that

Cloudchaser

[Arctic Cat]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

A basic stock engine? I thnk you might want to do some research on what engine was in it when they ran the 3km. Hybrid 3350, slow nose case and Nitrous is a little more than stock!

[grampi]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

I would love to see the Bear come back out and beat it's own record as I know it could. Back when they set this record they had many issues and a basic stock engine. If they were to complete some of the wing and airframe mods the team has discussed and run a good hard running race engine, nothing will ever touch them.

I disagree. If they get Dago running as strong as she was back when she was running those 507 MPH laps at reno when they attempt the 3K record, I don't think Bear will be able to touch it. Don't get me wrong, Bear is incredibly fast, but I think a strong running Dago, and probably even Strega are faster.

[flyingjibus]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

I disagree. If they get Dago running as strong as she was back when she was running those 507 MPH laps at reno when they attempt the 3K record, I don't think Bear will be able to touch it. Don't get me wrong, Bear is incredibly fast, but I think a strong running Dago, and probably even Strega are faster.

The Bear has done laps at 492 on a LONGER course measurement. If the course is 3% smaller now then the bear has done a 507 lap.

Computer models also suggest that the Rarebear has a faster airframe.

(I think that came from Bluefoam?)

As I said, I would love to see Dago make an attempt at the record, but history says the Bear is a faster aiplane.

[Mluvara]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

The Bear has done laps at 492 on a LONGER course measurement. If the course is 3% smaller now then the bear has done a 507 lap.

Computer models also suggest that the Rarebear has a faster airframe.

(I think that came from Bluefoam?)

As I said, I would love to see Dago make an attempt at the record, but history says the Bear is a faster aiplane.

If you look at the RARA race database, Rare Bear has never done consecutive laps as fast as Dago. In 1996, they qualified one lap at 491.266, and 1995 qualified at 489 for one lap. Qualification is one thing, but sustaining that for a race is another. The Bear's fastest speeds for a race are basically in 1991 and 2003. Comparing anything from 2003 onward to the older races basically needs a correction factor applied.

I've been doing a lot of research and will make a fairly in depth post in the future about the course measurements and what the changes,etc were to hopefully shed some light on what the impacts are.

There have been two types of changes to the course:

1. Moving pylons (pylon to pylon measurement)
2. Changing the way distance is calculated (2003 onward)

For the change in 2003, I do not believe this was quite 3%. Even if it was, the speed is still shy of Dago's 507 run. 1.03 x 481 = 495

I still firmly believe no one has ever gone as fast as Dago in 2003 on the course for an entire race, whether or not they changed the way the measurement was made.

I'm not trying to diminish or make one racer's feats better than another, but we simply have to look at the facts... The bottom line however, is that it is whoever crosses the finish line first on Sunday that matters.

Michael