Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

[flyingjibus]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

I agree completely. Thank you for taking the time to post a more thoughfull and enlightening post then I did.

From my point of view that race of Dago's was the fastest I have seen anything go around the pylons, I agree with that. But I have seen the bear go just about as fast numorous times.

My point that I keep trying to make (poorly at best, ) is that Dago is not "WAAAY faster", or able to "Blow the bear outta the water" as some people (and I dont mean just you Grampi ) seem to think.

Its strange with the Bear. People either love it and think it is the fastest plane ever. Or they just seem to ignore it and all the things it has done. Some people just cant give respect to a radial I guess....

[t-dub]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

This debate could go on forever. As long as both planes hold speed records, (Bear with time to climb and 3km, and Dago with 15km and fastest race/lap speed) the argument will continue, and it won't stop until one of the planes unifies them. The course debate will never be settled, because of the changes in the measurement of said course. Therefore, i say we all sit back and enjoy the fact that WE get the priveledge to witness THE fastest piston/propellor driven aircraft in the WORLD! What we are enjoying now, Ladies and Gentlemen, will someday be in the history books, and the people reading those books will be saying, "God, that must have been really cool to see, i wish i could have witnessed that!"

[Blue Foam]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

Computer models also suggest that the Rarebear has a faster airframe.

(I think that came from Bluefoam?)

Ummm, no. The Bear has the same wetted area and span, more power, and more drag areas that can be fixed easily. The fixes on the Mustang beyond what has already been done to Dago and Strega are not so easy and it has a smaller and older technology engine that has less headroom and reliability.

Both could go faster, but I do not see any of these teams doing the big-speed vs. low-cost changes that would settle this question. I have seen a lot of high-cost/low-benefit work that used to frustrate me. Now, I just sit back and watch. Unlimiteds are not worth the politics.

[flyingjibus]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

Maybe I am thinking of when you said the computer suggests Czech Mate is the fastest?

I dont remember. Thanks for speaking up though, I hate to walk around thinking the wrong things.

[grampi]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

Ummm, no. The Bear has the same wetted area and span, more power, and more drag areas that can be fixed easily.

I was thinking the same thing. All of the radial engined designs (including Rare Bear) have always had more frontal area than 'Stangs, making the 'Stangs more areodynamic, which to me that means IT'S the faster airframe.

[grampi]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

My point that I keep trying to make (poorly at best, ) is that Dago is not "WAAAY faster", or able to "Blow the bear outta the water" as some people (and I dont mean just you Grampi ) seem to think.

I don't think Dago is way faster than Bear (though I do believe it is somewhat faster). I do however believe it could break Bear's 3KM record by a considerable amount. I also believe Bear could break it as well. Bear's record has been in the books now for 20 years and these planes are considerably faster today than they were 20 years ago.

[Leo]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

What's cool is this is STILL the old "Mustang vs. Bearcat" argument that has been going on since the 40's!
Love it!

[RichH]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

There is also the Bear's incredible acceleration to consider, especially with "the squeeze". While Dago as configured in '03 would most likely be faster in a straight line, it would be interesting to see if it could best the Bear's time within the constraints of the 3km requirements. Remember also that beating the record requires a considerable percentage margin over the previous record and that the Bear completed a pass at ~540mph before running out of squeeze.

It would be quite the feat...

[johnnyrace]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

Since this is mostly a thread involving exciting speculation I want to add a little more...Both the Bear and Dago have obviously proven themselves to be the two fastest to date and worthy of debate...BUT...Those not mentioned (likely due to that they have never gone for a speed record) such as Strega could also enter this conversation...both Strega and VooDoo are later generations of the mods done to Dago...Strega has shown she is very fast...could she take the record?...and VooDoo...More than one person has told me that she is actually the cleanest of all the Mustangs when she has the small canopy...All she needs is the right motor...My prediction is this...After Reno 2009 some of the talk of the fastest will bring a certain purple Mustang into the mix...and last, though a bit of a brute , you gotta wonder to what speed September Fury could have risen to...especially in a straight line...okay...I know this will likely bring wrath and ridicule...but I thought these planes were certainly worth a mention on a topic of speed

[grampi]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

Since this is mostly a thread involving exciting speculation I want to add a little more...Both the Bear and Dago have obviously proven themselves to be the two fastest to date and worthy of debate...BUT...Those not mentioned (likely due to that they have never gone for a speed record) such as Strega could also enter this conversation...both Strega and VooDoo are later generations of the mods done to Dago...Strega has shown she is very fast...could she take the record?...and VooDoo...More than one person has told me that she is actually the cleanest of all the Mustangs when she has the small canopy...All she needs is the right motor...My prediction is this...After Reno 2009 some of the talk of the fastest will bring a certain purple Mustang into the mix...and last, though a bit of a brute , you gotta wonder to what speed September Fury could have risen to...especially in a straight line...okay...I know this will likely bring wrath and ridicule...but I thought these planes were certainly worth a mention on a topic of speed

I've mentioned Strega, and yes I believe all of these planes are potential conteders, however I also believe it's unlikely many of them will make an attempt at the record though.

[stuntflyr]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

The record is a tough nut and it costs a lot of money to attempt. It's about like going to the races. Lyle told me something that was a repeat of what I had heard about the Red Baron and Conquest 1 attempts; that the operation of setting the record is like flying the Gold on Sunday for each attempt.
Lyle set the record twice in '89. They upped it the next day. It's a ton of work and expense.

Now that said, those are the successful attempts. Probably everyone has the Tsunami tape of their record attempt but the 1984 3KM record attempt by FTR in Dago Red was just as dramatic and was equally unsuccessful. Lyle attempted the 15KM twice in'73 and didn't get a time, as well David Price in '97 the same record unsuccessfully.

That said and understood, there are many owners that simply do not feel the desire to set the FAI record. The motivation is different. Darryl wanted the record in the USA instead of set by the Nazi regime of Germany. Z and Browning wanted to beat the Bearcat. Lyle wanted 500 that Browning couldn't get.

Frank wants the record, and the airplane is certainly capable of setting down 6 consecutive 540 mph passes. No problem. It just whether the elusive human factors can come together as well as when the three last teams that were successful at the 3KM.

[Race4gold]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

stuntflyr is right -

Terry Bland always wanted to attempt setting both Records but the cost was astronomical. The main goal for the Dago Team was to compete at Reno. The cost that was calculated - based on what David Price paid in 1996 for the 15K. - plus going to Reno in the same year would have exceeded 1 million dollars. 2 Race Motors + 1 to get you home, FAI Expences from Europe, Crew expences to both areas, and countless logistical costs. Plus the Aircraft would need to be setup differently for Air Racing and the Record Attempt. Going to Reno was the best "bang for your buck". And if you win at Reno, your fortunate to break even.

Dan

[MerlinV12]

Re: Dago and the 3 km Speed Record

Good to hear that they want break the records after all those years