Mustang

[taglialavore]

Iīve read in another thread here, the following:

"A classic example of something that was thought "impossible" was a fighter aircraft that could simultaneously do three things: 1) fly as far and high as a B-17, 2) cruise as fast as a B-24, and 3) still have fuel and payload to fight with when it got to the end of its mission. Ironically, the Germans also thought such an aircraft was either impossible or impractical until they saw Mustangs over the Rhineland."

And couldnīt avoid to mention something.
In honour to the truth, that airplane was designed by a German (Edgard Schmued), engined by a British engine (RR Merlin) and constructed in USA (by Noth American Aviation).
This designer was self-educated and he was not grown up in US.
It was quite a long period of the history to be discussed here, but nevertheless itīs very interesting.

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Mustang

"German-American" would be more accurate, as he became an American citizen BEFORE designing the P-51.

Remember, just about everyone in the USA or their ancestors came from another country (except for Native Americans of course).

Note that Mr. Schmued also designed the F-86 Saberjet.

[split-s]

Re: Mustang

Hey, don't forget Dutch Kindelberger, first-generation American of German parents, who, rather than license-build P-40s, proposed to the British a new and better design ...

(Was he an engineer or a supervisor at that point in time?)

$

[mgbf4u]

Re: Mustang

Absolutely. The P51 Mustang was the right plane at the right time.
Read about it in Air Classics Magazine. Volume 45 Number 9 September 2009
It goes back to the B model and one young Chuck Yeager, who turns out can't spell very well, flying "Glamourus Glen"
Life, liberty and the right to fly 50 caliber machine guns around and shoot Germans. Apparently it worked out well for the Mustang pilots for the most part.
Flying a Mustang around the pylons at 500 MPH is another story, one
that Stevo Hinton could tell. And Skip Holm. And...
Who else has recorded a 500 MPH lap?

[Coyote Chris]

Re: Mustang

Extra points Question. Did the Brits really come up with the idea of putting a Merlin in the P-51 or was it really US Air Attachee to London Major Tommy Hitchcock's Idea?

(The "American Indian" came from Siberia and we all can trace our roots to Africa...can't we all just get along?

[Paynts]

Re: Mustang

question is how much longer would it have taken for the P51 to be built if Sir Henry Self from the British purchasing commission hadn't had talks with the president of North American about building a better fighter than the P40 for the RAF? In truth it seems to me that even if NAA had half a design for the P51 up their sleeve it was the brits that agreed to buy it not their own forces and thus it got designed and built

As for the idea that it was the Americans who first thought of putting the Merlin into the Mustang..... less plausible than the generally accepted story of the Rolls Royce flight Test establishment chief test pilot Ronnie Harker coming up with the idea to convert the P51 to merlin power
If the guys at North American had thought of it they would have already approached Rolls Royce and asked for an engine or "aquired" one by other means

mind you if you think U571 was boarded by Americans who captured a cipher machine and helped shorten the war by years then it all fits

[Pyrodude]

Re: Mustang

"...mind you if you think U571 was boarded by Americans who captured a cipher machine and helped shorten the war by years then it all fits"


Hey, thats how it happened in the movie.

[Coyote Chris]

Re: Mustang

"Hitchcock was assigned as an assistant air attache to the US Embassy in London, England. In that capacity, he was instrumental in the development of the P-51 Mustang fighter plane, particularly in replacing the original Allison engine with the Packard-built Rolls-Royce Merlin. He was killed in a crash while piloting one such aircraft near Salisbury, Wiltshire, England when he was unable to pull out of a dive while doing tests."

[split-s]

Re: Mustang

"...mind you if you think U571 was boarded by Americans who captured a cipher machine and helped shorten the war by years then it all fits"


Hey, thats how it happened in the movie.

LOL!

From the same industry that gave us "Thunder over Reno".

$

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Mustang

LOL!

From the same industry that gave us "Thunder over Reno".

$

I resent that remark! I had no hand in the actual planning or production of the movie but know, intimately, those who did. I've found the off handed critique of the move, from the start, to be particularly offensive..

My questing always has been.. "where's your movie?"

Flame proof suit on, we've been down this road before.. just could not stand seeing friends blindsided again....



Sometimes, I think "message boards" were the worst invention, ever.. they give "everyone" a voice.. whether they deserve to have one or not...

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Mustang

I hope my last post does not come off as too.... "angry" but..

If you think about the folks who were actually involved with making TOR..

Will Whiteside
Jimmy Leeward
Brent Hisey
Mike Brown
Robert Odegaard
Lyle Shelton
Gerry Beck

I'm missing a lot of folks here but, look at the above list..

Where, in your contribution to this sport do you fall in with the list???

Again..

Where's your movie?????

In the words of my hero Rodney Dangerfield... "tough crowd"...

[440_Magnum]

Re: Mustang

Iīve read in another thread here, the following:

"A classic example of something that was thought "impossible" was a fighter aircraft that could simultaneously do three things: 1) fly as far and high as a B-17, 2) cruise as fast as a B-24, and 3) still have fuel and payload to fight with when it got to the end of its mission. Ironically, the Germans also thought such an aircraft was either impossible or impractical until they saw Mustangs over the Rhineland."

And couldnīt avoid to mention something.
In honour to the truth, that airplane was designed by a German (Edgard Schmued), engined by a British engine (RR Merlin) and constructed in USA (by Noth American Aviation).

All quite true, and included in the book I was quoting. Just didn't want to reprint the whole darned thing here ;-) The idea for switching from Allison to Merlin power also originated in the UK. The rest, as they say, is history.

The US was, whether justifiably or not, highly protective of the latest tech at the time. We'd been supplying Lightnings and Liberators to the RAF for some time, but without turbochargers (nor Norden bombsights for that matter). And secrecy aside GE wasn't able to produce turbos fast enough for all the engines that needed them, therefore the P-39 and P-40 stayed normally aspirated. The priority was first the bombers, and then second their primary escorts early in the war (P-47 and P-38).

[440_Magnum]

Re: Mustang

I hope my last post does not come off as too.... "angry" but..

If you think about the folks who were actually involved with making TOR..

Will Whiteside
Jimmy Leeward
Brent Hisey
Mike Brown
Robert Odegaard
Lyle Shelton
Gerry Beck

I'm missing a lot of folks here but, look at the above list..

I haven't seen the movie myself, so I have no idea whether I would like it. It is obvious that a lot of people really don't like it, but IMHO that's no reason to take it as a slap against the people mentioned here. Good actors, good writers, and good directors have wound up involved in perfectly horrible movies about as long as there have been movies, usually through no fault of their own. IF someone implies that "TOR" is bad, it certainly doesn't make me assume that its the fault of anyone on the above list.

[split-s]

Re: Mustang

"Originally Posted by AAFO_WSagar
I hope my last post does not come off as too.... "angry" but..

If you think about the folks who were actually involved with making TOR..

Will Whiteside
Jimmy Leeward
Brent Hisey
Mike Brown
Robert Odegaard
Lyle Shelton
Gerry Beck

I'm missing a lot of folks here but, look at the above list.."

I haven't seen the movie myself, so I have no idea whether I would like it. It is obvious that a lot of people really don't like it, but IMHO that's no reason to take it as a slap against the people mentioned here. Good actors, good writers, and good directors have wound up involved in perfectly horrible movies about as long as there have been movies, usually through no fault of their own. IF someone implies that "TOR" is bad, it certainly doesn't make me assume that its the fault of anyone on the above list.

What he said.

"Too angry"? Might just!

I researched "ToR" for a page in "Rare Air" which will be posted in a few days -- unless you ban me from the site, Mr. Sagar -- and what I found left me disinclined to see the movie.

It stands to reason that the a/c in the movie would be flown for the cameras by those who have business doing so, people I've likely heard of and admire. (I wouldn't suppose that those P-40s in "Pearl Harbor" were actually flown by Ben Awfulflick and Josh Hardtoremember.) Why would you assume I was slanging Dr. Hisey? I love that guy!

$

[Mike Erickson]

Re: Mustang

I hope my last post does not come off as too.... "angry" but..

If you think about the folks who were actually involved with making TOR..

Will Whiteside
Jimmy Leeward
Brent Hisey
Mike Brown
Robert Odegaard
Lyle Shelton
Gerry Beck

I'm missing a lot of folks here but, look at the above list..

Where, in your contribution to this sport do you fall in with the list???

Again..

Where's your movie?????

In the words of my hero Rodney Dangerfield... "tough crowd"...

There you go again ,calling this air racing a sport.Are you kidding me?