Images being used without permission

[T. Adams]

Re: Images being used without permission

[QUOTE=Victor Archer;78196]

Not true if you have media credentials...

If you read the back of your ticket at any NHRA, EAA, ALMS event, you can take as many as you want, but if your photos for instance end up in a companies ads, you have some explaining to do. That's even if your just a spectator with a little point and shoot camera.

[Victor Archer]

Re: Images being used without permission

At both the NHRA Finals and the Winternationals at Pamona they announce that you can not sell, distribute or even post for public display any images you take at the events.

[Ken from PG]

Re: Images being used without permission

I believe I read somewhere that all photos taken at the races are the property of RARA

[tim]

Re: Images being used without permission

I believe I read somewhere that all photos taken at the races are the property of RARA

What if you're off property on the fence line?

[BillRo]

Re: Images being used without permission

If you go to the media tab on the RARA site you can see the restrictions that the press people are required to sign up to.

http://www.airrace.org/PressAgreementRelease2009.pdf

BillRo

[ezetom]

Re: Images being used without permission

I dont see were you draw the line here,,

A couple years ago at PRS, someone tried to sell me a shot of my plane on the course.... well how is it ethical for this person to make money off "his investment of time and money" and I dont get squat for flying MY airplane, and burning MY gas, and using MY skills as a pilot to enable this person to copyright "their" images?

I really dont know what all the stink is about.......

[BillA]

Re: Images being used without permission

I dont see were you draw the line here,,

A couple years ago at PRS, someone tried to sell me a shot of my plane on the course.... well how is it ethical for this person to make money off "his investment of time and money" and I dont get squat for flying MY airplane, and burning MY gas, and using MY skills as a pilot to enable this person to copyright "their" images?

I really dont know what all the stink is about.......

Don't you get money to race in the form of prize money?

[JCP]

Re: Images being used without permission

Don't you get money to race in the form of prize money?

It's more like reimbursement of expenses if your lucky and don't break anything.

PRS is 100% out of pocket expense for the Pilots/owners. No prize money at PRS.

JC

[BillRo]

Re: Images being used without permission

If you read your PRS application you will find that you assigned all rights to photos of your plane to RARA.

BillRo

[wingman]

Re: Images being used without permission

Well Tom, there are several ways of looking at the issue. If you were in a bar and got talking to a 100 hour Cessna 150 pilot, and he asked to fly your racer and thought he could do fine because "it's just an airplane like any other airplane", would you let him fly your property?

I am eternally grateful that the pilots and owners bring their airplanes to Reno each year, but I have no illusions that they do it for me. They do it because they like to fly low and they like to race. I don't take pictures because I want to make the pilots happy, but because I like the challenge of creating something unique. I have just as much of my net worth tied up in equipment as many pilots have in their airplane. I create something that few others can create, just as a Race pilot has skills not many other people have. I like recognition from the world that I bring something special to the table.

There's also the question of quality. To many people, including many pilots, a picture is a picture. They see no great difference between a photograph done by me or Birgitta from one done by their girl friend with a hundred dollar point and shoot camera. Fine -- that's not who I'm trying to reach. There are other pilots who will buy anything I come up with because they recognise that I do what their girl friend can't. When you need a mag overhauled don't you go to the best shop available?

More than one pilot over the years has not been interested in my photos because "I have lots of pictures of my airplane already and I have fans coming up every Reno to give me pictures for free". If they cannot see a difference between what I do and what a fan in the stands does, that's fine with me. On the other hand there are guys like the Unlimited racer who last summer very happily traded a Mustang ride for one of my photos and a little gas money. He thought he got a heck of a deal. He saw that I brought him something that nobody else had brought him and he wanted the photo.

Your airplane is your property. My photographs are my property. It's as simple as that, in my opinion.

Like I said, there are many ways to look at this issue...

Neal

[T. Adams]

Re: Images being used without permission

Said much more nicely than I would have put it.

[Pylon1_Mark]

Re: Images being used without permission

I dont see were you draw the line here,,

A couple years ago at PRS, someone tried to sell me a shot of my plane on the course.... well how is it ethical for this person to make money off "his investment of time and money" and I dont get squat for flying MY airplane, and burning MY gas, and using MY skills as a pilot to enable this person to copyright "their" images?

I really dont know what all the stink is about.......

It does cost money to get that photo from the photo lab, it costs money for gas for the car to get there, hotel to sleep at night if you don't live there, eats while you are there, camera, lens, equipment... the list goes on. Just like it takes skill to pilot an aircraft, it takes skill and experience to get that photo which truely captures the essence of racing/flight. So yes - a person has a considerable envestment in time and money to be able to get that photo. Shouldn't they be entitled to compensation?

A few years ago I "sold" a few photos to air race pilot (who will remain nameless). Cost me over $375 for the prints (3 prints at 28x18)... so how ethical was it for this pilot to stiff me with the bill, quoting the very same things you did right in front of me (and no, it wasn't you sir... not implying that at all)?

So... as everything, it depends on one's perspective. I will say this much - I no longer sell prints to pilots.

[BellCobraIV]

Re: Images being used without permission

Well Tom, there are several ways of looking at the issue. If you were in a bar and got talking to a 100 hour Cessna 150 pilot, and he asked to fly your racer and thought he could do fine because "it's just an airplane like any other airplane", would you let him fly your property?

I am eternally grateful that the pilots and owners bring their airplanes to Reno each year, but I have no illusions that they do it for me. They do it because they like to fly low and they like to race. I don't take pictures because I want to make the pilots happy, but because I like the challenge of creating something unique. I have just as much of my net worth tied up in equipment as many pilots have in their airplane. I create something that few others can create, just as a Race pilot has skills not many other people have. I like recognition from the world that I bring something special to the table.

There's also the question of quality. To many people, including many pilots, a picture is a picture. They see no great difference between a photograph done by me or Birgitta from one done by their girl friend with a hundred dollar point and shoot camera. Fine -- that's not who I'm trying to reach. There are other pilots who will buy anything I come up with because they recognise that I do what their girl friend can't. When you need a mag overhauled don't you go to the best shop available?

More than one pilot over the years has not been interested in my photos because "I have lots of pictures of my airplane already and I have fans coming up every Reno to give me pictures for free". If they cannot see a difference between what I do and what a fan in the stands does, that's fine with me. On the other hand there are guys like the Unlimited racer who last summer very happily traded a Mustang ride for one of my photos and a little gas money. He thought he got a heck of a deal. He saw that I brought him something that nobody else had brought him and he wanted the photo.

Your airplane is your property. My photographs are my property. It's as simple as that, in my opinion.

Like I said, there are many ways to look at this issue...

Neal

Neal
Some are blind some are not, some went faster consistently and some did not. You have consistently put award quality images. The ones that you took that you thought would save my dad's life you sent freely. IMHO you are the artiste, it is your art. Hundreds of people were there you took that image. you composed it you own it.

Thanks you and the other photogs always have my support.

[JCP]

Re: Images being used without permission

I personally enjoy being able to look back in time through the fruits of the labor of photographers. As a Pilot and Warbird Operator, I am eternally grateful to all of you that use your time, talent and money to capture the countless memories that might otherwise be lost. The faulty camera in my mind does not even come close to capturing the memories that you save for us all. Yes, they might be our airplanes, but it takes a village to keep it all going and the photographers are our historians. Just think of that feeling you get when a person shares an Album of their work and all of the memories that come rushing back. Now that's priceless....... and it sure as hell wasn't free.

To all of you photographers out there I say Thank You!

[shorebird]

Re: Images being used without permission

Is there a link on this or another site where all the different air racing photographers galleries are accessible? It would make viewing and purchasing photographs so much easier.
People occasionally send me images from Reno that they stumble upon on the web. Why not make it easier for air race fans and teams to find your work so you can sell it?