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**Mluvara** · 06-30-2003, 09:10 PM

I personally believe that this year will be interesting. One thing to note is the competition that was on the course during each one of those years stated above. Look back to the 80's and 90's when the bear was racing hard and you'll see that there was more competition pushing her (hence 1991, IMO the best race ever). That's not to say that the round vs inline reliability and longevity is not true. The last few years, Dago hasn't had to do much more than cruise on the course ahead of others that really couldn't keep up. If all the planes are healthy come Sunday this Sept, it's going to be one heck of a race.

Michael

**AAFO_WSagar** · 06-30-2003, 09:19 PM

Michael, if what Matt Jackson told me is true, and I have no reason to doubt it, in 2000, that 462 that they posted on Sunday, after pushing it up a bit on Saturday to get round Voodoo once Matt took the lead.. well.. from what Matt told me, Dago was spitting crap for the entire last half of the race on Sunday.. meaning, the engine, which we all know blew on take-off right after the race, was going away during the race..

Also, was it '99?, they were nearly broke at the end of the race with a valve spring keeper having gone away or almost away...

Don't get me wrong, I love the Merlin, and the Griffon.. hell.. Love em all!

I just don't think we've seen the traditional round pushing in-line in a competitive way for several years and when we did see this in years past, if the roundie held, she usually broke the in-line...

That Bear engine is a sweetie from all I'm hearing.. and it sounds AWESOME!!!....

For sure, can't count out either Mike Brown, or Sikpper... but... A HEALTHY Bearcat on the course is going to make it a REAL race this year..

This is a message to the race fans out there.. man, if you have ever come to a Reno, come to this one! It's gonna be real!

Wayne

**matt** · 06-30-2003, 09:41 PM

personally, my money's on dago, the only reason dago has run 481 in a race lap is because she didn't need to, skip is only going to fly as fast as he needs to win. and, although i mean absolutely no disrespect to mr. penney, skip has been flying the course alot more in recent years than john.

also, dago red is a team with everything they need, money, experienced crew and crew chief, a really fast airframe and one damn good pilot.

**AAFO_WSagar** · 06-30-2003, 09:52 PM

Wee haw.. let the (friendly) debate rip! I love it.. !

I don't know if I agree with you on the "only" reason Skip has never flown as fast a race. The reason behind my "reasoning" is that, we just don't know, because he has not been pushed..

Using 2000 as an example, and the long history of the racing Merlin's penchant to break when pushed.. well.. I don't want to jinx ANYONE with any predictions but..

For sure, if the Bearcat stays healthy and can consistently push, it's not going to be as easy, to be sure, no matter how much money any team has, or skill any team has.

And, speaking of teams, let's not discount the guys on Rare Bear's team..

This may be their first actual race year but these guys are really sharp AIRPLANE mechanics. They are used to working "time critical" they proved at PRS that when chips are down, they can pull the rabbit out of the hat, work all night and then again the next day to get the job done.

John may not have been on the course in recent years until PRS but for a "Rookie" he sure looked good to me!

John Penney is, for sure, in the same league as Skip. Both are very sharp, both are very skilled. John, is probably the most analytical pilot I've ever met, while at the same time, being a ferocious race pilot..

I don't know about anyone else, but these next few months counting down to Reno 2003 are going to be VERY long months!

Wayne

**matt** · 06-30-2003, 10:45 PM

well, i'll put it this way, then leave it alone, the dago team knows that mustang like the back of their hand, inside and out. they also know exactly what they're up against.

i just think that if the rare bear crew goes out and tries to win with the experience they have - with as monstrous a plane as the bear is they won't be very successful.

**stuntflyr** · 06-30-2003, 11:08 PM

It is interesting to note that Wayne mentions John is a very analytical pilot.
In his early days in the Bearcat he was , in my view, unfairly criticized for not pushing the airplane when in a real sense it was in no position to win. He completed the race, landed it in one piece and it flew out later with the same engine. With a new sponsor. It was good flying and good strategy.
It would make sense that John will "fly the conditions" and if it means go for a win, he will go for it. If it is not sensible, he will show discretion.
Respectfully, Chris...

**AAFO_WSagar** · 06-30-2003, 11:33 PM

Hi Chris,

If I'm not mistaken, I think John actually taught at the Air Force test pilot school (someone correct me if I'm wrong) at least, I saw him recently on a TV show about that subject and I think, it was not a real current show (is anything recent on Discovery Wings?

)

I've not known John an awful long time, but what I see is a very cool, collected individual and also from what I've seen, a very good pilot as well.

I totally agree that he'll fly the conditions, including the fact that the team really can't afford to go for a "win at all cost" program. They need *some* prize money and a working airplane at the end of the day on Sunday and I suspect that will play strongly into their plan for the week.

What really excites me about this is the 475MPH lap at PRS and that there is potential for a win at that speed, if John has the conditions to be able to turn that out, consistantly, all week.

From everything I've ever heard about the racing 3350, when it's right and treated right, it will give you really good, reliable horspower for a long time. All indications are that this engine is a really sound one.

From how I heard it run after the carb swap with the Dwelle's carb, it ran MUCH better than with the carb it had in it, even prior to the failure of that carb on Friday morning.

The failure of the carb had a traceable cause (I'm not actually sure I'm supposed to repeat what that was, so I will not) but I have to wonder if it wasn't totally "not-right" all along. She just seemed to spark up much better and certainly sounded smoother than I've heard her since they first started it at Reno '02...

All of that being said, man.. this is gonna be a good year!

Wayne Sagar

**King** · 07-01-2003, 05:29 AM

I think what Wayne means here is this.....

This situation between the racing merlin and roundie is much like taking a NASCAR V8 against one of those little Fast and Furius Rice cars.

The little hoped up and blown V6 with nitro is gonna run away from the Big Bad V8 for the first part of the race around the track.

But with the Big V8 just pushing on the rice cars bumper the entire time, it is just a matter of physics when the little high strung V6 blows all the heck. While the Big Bad V8 just lopes by.

Gotta remember that cubic inches always wins out in the end. Just gotta make sure the race is long enough to show this fact.

King

**Propellerhead** · 07-01-2003, 08:11 AM

As they say: "There's no replacement for displacement."

Rob

**ecvsteve** · 07-01-2003, 08:43 AM

So whats the speed gunna be?

Are all of you saying that this year we may be watching a 500 mph race?
John Force stick that up your ....

Everybody fly safe, its gunna be fast.

**AAFO_WSagar** · 07-01-2003, 11:16 AM

Steve,

I cringe every time I think about the 500mph lap, that's just my feeling on it...

What I would would love to see is (dreaming again) nobody touch that record until a sponsor or sponsors step up to the plate to offer a $500,000. prize for that record.

Reasoning behind this is: realistically, the 500mph lap is going to cost the team who does it about that much over the year to do it. .5 mil would pay for the $250,000 or so that it would take to build the engine to do it, and if you don't count the next round to get it back to where it was before the run started, it would pay for the team's expenses for a year and maybe put some change back in the pocket of the owner of the airplane.

If you do count the total engine and parts costs to get there and leave race ready, even at five hundred grand, it's pretty close to a break even proposition..

I seriously don't think the average fan, or even avid fan who has been there for many years will notice that big of a difference between a race or lap run at 480 and one flown at 500 or 500 and small change.

But the cost to achieve that extra few MPH can be great in machines and manpower to get there..

I'd far rather see a 450MPH week where everyone goes home and goes home with a healthy machine for the next one. We're headed into a time when there just might be more than one race annually, certainly, we're headed to an era when air show appearances by racers is going to become much more prevalant. If these guys can put on a good "show" and I don't mean demonstraion/formation racing, but a good racing show, then leave healthy and go on to the next appearance at whomever's airshow, or demonstration race, or race.. the potential for major sponsorship becomes far more realistic.

After all these years, we're finally close to this goal in many ways.. If the 500mph costs the sport, and I do think it can and could, to me, it's just not worth it...

Now, from a racers view, it's the brass ring, a goal, something they all want to have painted on thier airplane and on their trailer.. will they keep going for it and desiring it... yep... they are racers, that's what they do..

Is it worth it, at least right now?... not in my opinion..

I'm still a "fan" of "restrictor plate" racing. In NASCAR, it saves lives and equippment and to me, the "show" is all the better for it.. In NCAR, I think it could do the same thing.. just dreaming though.. I want to see this sport grow and flourish!

Wayne Sagar

**Leo** · 07-01-2003, 01:51 PM

competition vs. speed

I would agree with you Wayne. A long time fan, I really can't see the difference between 475 and 500 without a time. Back when the speeds bumped up a few MPH a year it was exciting to watch the quali's to see the increases, but it never really translated to the races. Too many times there has been a tail chase in the Gold with any real racing going on in the Silver and Bronze.
As much as I love the noise and speed of unlimiteds, the real "racing" is done in the other classes. I even thought the short lived T-28 races were more competitive than most unlimited races.
I'd rather see the speeds a little lower and the competition closer, as it was in the 80's. I may be wrong here (I'm both at work, where I have no facts to look at, and older, so I can't access my memory so good...) but it seemed there were more passes and position trades in the front of the pack then. The strategy seemed a little more complicated than full throttle till it breaks, if it does'nt, you win!
Not in any way do I demean them now, I still go there only for the sight and sound of the unlimiteds screamin around the course as fast as possible. i just wish they could do it together....

Leo

**ecvsteve** · 07-01-2003, 02:22 PM

hey wait a minute

I agree with everything you guys are saying.

But what do you think the gold speed will be this year?

From all the tallk on this board it seems ol'Rare Bear is going to quilify at record lap of 500 and just stay ahead of Dago to win. I don't think it's going to be that easy on either of them and I aint counting anybody else out, RISKY where are you.

they dont need record speeds but we had that extra year. there has been money spent and we have some sponsers who would like to win.
is there something that will control the speed this year?

I hope I dont sound like an idiot, but bear has gotten a lot of attention and I hope Dago is Jealous and out for a fight.

**AAFO_WSagar** · 07-01-2003, 02:31 PM

Hummn..... the old saying "to finish first, you first have to finish" comes to mind here..

Chess game time... is the record worth risking breaking an engine? Certainly wouldn't think so for Rare Bear. I seriously doubt that Dago has a spare full on race motor either...soo..

Can Dago Red take a 500mph attempt and then keep up with being pushed all week long by a healthy Bearcat with power in reserve??

We've been leaving out Mike Brown in this equation, I guess my thought on that is the speed Bear turned at PRS sort of puts them out in front of MB... are we making a mistake here? Have we seen all that Sea Fury has to offer?

Then, how bout Critical Mass.. fresh engine, hungry, solid performer in past years.. they just have never quite gotten all the ducks lined up at the same time.

Dreads... Furias... Czech... good lord.. who else is gonna be back there with a big round motor pushing....

:

Wowser... is this getting interesting or what!?!

Wayne

Announcement

Rare Bear v Dago Red - A Look At Race Speeds

Rare Bear v Dago Red - A Look At Race Speeds

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