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**Scotty G** · 07-05-2003, 08:03 PM

Mr. Adams,

Just an honest question here that I might expand on later... How many years have you been around Reno?

**T. Adams** · 07-05-2003, 08:32 PM

Honest Answer

I have followed it since the 80's mainly through Air Classics magazine. Obviously before the net, there was not a lot of coverage out there. I have only had the chance to attend in 2000, and 2002. I will continue to attend if I can afford it every year. I know I may raise a few peoples ire, but everybody is entitled to their opinion. I don't pretend to know everything about air racing, just throwing some ideas, and opinions out there, no malice intended to any one person, just strong opinions.

I'm always open to responses. It's not like I have never changed my opinion about a subject.

**AAFO_WSagar** · 07-05-2003, 08:49 PM

I did not get a chance to respond before Wayne closed the thread. I DO NOT under any circumstances blame any of the 3 websites that cover air racing. I place the blame on the shoulders of the teams, and RARA itself. All 3 of the sites can only report what the teams tell them.

Maybe it wasn't the best idea to close that thread.. but it seemed to be beating a dead horse and was diverting all of our attention away from the real issues of this year... But since it seems to be resurfacing in other threads, what to hell.. I guess we're going to beat this horse some more..

Responding to T.'s statements, it's not an issue of RARA not providing us news, or of the teams not providing same, neither entity usually provide us with news in the "call us" mode.. Sometimes RARA will send a press release or two during the off season, rarely will a team contact us "cold" with anything.

The way it *usually* works, one of us, (the three racing websites) get wind of something, or just cold call, we get something the team agrees we can publish and away we go. This is how the recent "announcement" by Furias Air Racing was done and we all now know that Gary Hubler is replacing Art in the drivers seat..

Imagine this senario, Mr. Unlimited makes a presentation to Mr. Sponser. Mr. Sponser sees your package and asks, "Since you only race once a year, how do the fans, and media keep up with your team during the off-season? Mr. Unlimited replies, "Well there are 3 websites that do a real good job of covering air raciing on the net." You add, "But we don't really ever tell them anything though"

Interesting point in that the teams might well further their goals if they did provide regular updates to the reporters covering the sport, but with all three of the sites currently at it, the webmasters of each all, in our own ways, have to earn a living apart from the sites to keep them online.. (guess what.. servers are not free

) so maybe we don't even publish half of what we *do* get.. why? We have other things going and we then rely on the message boards to get out the word, or, we just sit back and do what we can, when we can..

I stand by my statement about the pathetic excuse for a website that Dago Red has.

That site was done by a volunteer for the team, it's well laid out, has bio's on most of the team members and last time I checked, a webstore (I think) to buy Team Stuff.. pretty much all you can ask for from a team site..

Rare bear is really the exception because they are very actively seeking funding in any way they can and all the attention they can garner is needed to even get the airplane into the air the September.. now. if I refresh my rather Fourth of July soaked memory, this is what started this discussion in the first place.

We've been devoting a ton of effort to the team, more or less, as a sponsor, in order to help insure that they get the funding to be there. Now, if you look at this effort by the team, and the fact that this is a six time Reno winner, holder of the world speed record in class for outright speed, and it is the former holder of the course record at Reno, and is the holder of the race speed record currently, and then figure in that this airplane has been out of competition, realistically, for many years and now, with the help of a new crew of Reno locals, she's damn near race ready and add also the fact, this is a NEW type of sponsorship effort, Fan Sponsorship and you have, pretty much, the story of the year..

Not that there is not other news, but, this is the news that we're banging away at because, it's not in the bag yet, funds are STILL needed so, we bang out an update from time to time (you'll note, most of what we actually post a link to is written by the team) and we post a Rah Rah "cheerleader" type message on the board from time to time...

This is where the news is, this is where we've had the time to put our efforts this year.

Period!

RARA and every team, in every class needs to take a hard look at what they can do to promote the races.

On this issue, I might tend to agree with you. I believe, in thier own right, RARA feels it does the best it can do to get out the "word" about the sport.. though at times, I'd have to admit, they seem to work against those of us who cover it, rather than with.. but, that's a totaly different issue, for a totaly different discussion. We do not know all of the details, so we can only look from the outside and speculate why things are as they are..

We can not pay reporters to "work" for aafo, nor, do I suspect, WAP or Pylon1 are in the position to pay reporters. In year's past, we were allowed an extra "hand" or three out at Reno in order to make it happen, and we were finally gaining enough "hands" to begin to really make a run at giving each division a good bit of coverage.

Well, we are now, essentially, a one man band here at aafo.com because we don't have anyone else we can get in come September to help. That's just the way it is folks.. I'm not putting anyone down for this, it's the rules as they stand, we abide by them and try to do the best we can.

I can assure you that there will not be as much "up to the minute" coverage as there has been in year's past, at least not from this publication. WAP may make a run at it, I don't know if Pylon 1 will or not.

Personally, I can tell you that for the last 4 or five years, I've LIVED at Stead, 24/7 for ten days during Reno, setting up a local network, tying that into a "high speed" net connection, run the ramp, hit the pylons and stayed up, many times, till 4:00 am or later to get the daily update finished and uploaded. Then awoke at 8:00 or 9:00 am and started it again..

Two years ago, I nearly killed myself and my passenger when, I fell asleep just an hour out from Stead.. while driving home..

I awoke just in time but the 10 day fatigue hit me on Monday on the drive home and I just could not stay awake, even long enough to get to Susanville to get some much needed coffee..

Anyway, I've just spent about a half hour writing this response.. Now, I'm tired of writing and I will not write anymore tonight, not a team update, not any history pieces, (both of which are sitting in my "staging area")

Ya'll think about this when this "stuff" becomes an issue on this site or others.. Time spent "handling" it is time spent that just *might* be spent otherwise..

Personally, I'm good for about 8 hrs at the keyboard daily.. Unfortunately, I'm making my living now with this same keyboard. If the hours that I *do* have for doing this stuff are spent watching for fights, slanderous comments, angry responses, messagers who demand explanations for comments like those aimed at a young, headsure user in another thread.. then the time available for doing this site, and likely the others, is eaten doing this..

Reaity check.. this is not a big money making venture that when we have an issue, we simply throw money at and hire someone to handle it.. these websites are mostly "hobby" sites.. this one has been pretty much a full time venture since 2000, until last year when, I looked at how much money I was spending to make it so... the results were, I had to take more of my time and MAKE money rather than Spend money..

We've asked for and been critisized for asking for, donations to help keep it up. A few of you were pretty generous and it helped the cause.... but, unfortunately, most of you did not take the time to drop a dollar or five or ten into the kitty.. Or buy a print.. or whatever else you might do to help..

When someone nicks us, and the blood of that nick hits the water, there always seem to be quite a few sharks who smell it and come in for the kill.. Our HEARTFELT thanks go out to those of you who come to our defense, from the bottom of my heart, I can tell you, if not for those supportive messages and emails, it would quickly become NOT worth it..

Well.... now we're ticking off about 45 mins into this response...

Do we want to continue?

I guess this board is as much yours as it is ours.. we watch it to try to keep it civil. We get our feathers ruffled, just like any competitive macho male would when someone tosses us some crap.. we could probably much better spend our time doing *something* else for this site..

I guess, it's up to you guys.. What do you want.. more of this sort of thing or, more "stuff" about the races?

Wayne Sagar

**T. Adams** · 07-05-2003, 09:22 PM

OK, OK

OK!!, More stuff about the races. I try to do what I can do to promote and help teams. I buy t-shirts, I sent money to the Bear for insurance, I post photos of the races on "non-aviation" sites to spread the word about air racing. I let my coworkers know where I'm going on vacation this September. Honestly if I said nothing at work, not one of a little over 100 employees at our plant would have a clue about air racing. I suppose if I can get just 1 person to get to Reno, you never know how far it can go.

I'm done. More stuff about the races, PLEASE!!

**Scotty G** · 07-05-2003, 10:57 PM

Mr. Adams,

Thanks for the response. I asked because, after 20 consecutive years of attending, covering, and participating at Reno, there is a certain atmosphere created by RARA. I just didn't know if you had experienced it, heard about it, or been influenced by it.

RARA runs their ship a certain way, and it's their way or the highway. That's just the way it is. (shrug)

Over the years, the way the press has been treated has improved. We actually get a tent now and some chow a few times a day. I have to tell you; that is appreciated VERY much.

I do wish RARA would grant websites - because of the sole reason that we bring air racing to you 365/12 - that we be able to explore some different and more creative ways to cover Reno. So far, I've been turned down.

But we keep on doing it, for now, 'cause it's "what we do."

Take care!

**AAFO_WSagar** · 07-06-2003, 12:48 AM

Scotty,

I too, have been there for many years. Most of which, were as a devoted fan, sitting in the stands, holding a pit pass and being in total awe of men and machines that I now know much more intimately than I ever dreamed I would at that time.

I've seen RARA go through a few changes during my time as a "reporter" covering this sport. I harbor a few opinions about same, some of which are not for public consumption, however, all in all, I think they do a fantastic job of managing what has become the last bastion of this sport.

That said... the tent and chow that they offer us, in my opinion, if it causes one ligit member of the media to be denied access, I'd bring a balogna sandwich and a can of Pepsi 1 in my pack any day of any week to keep those bona fide members in the group who are allowed to be "there" and bring their impressions, be that via film or words, about this sport, to the world...

In my opinion, Mike Houghton is probably the best "General" that any commander could hope for to deal with the seeming chaos that is the "Reno National Championship Air Races". A thousand crisis a day are handled by his unstopping energy and determination and I think he does an amazing job in this capacity.

Again, the however... from this, I feel that a "crisis" that developed, wherein, many undeserved people were getting pylon and press access, a situation that needed immediate action by *someone* ... *might* have been handled in a way that precluded some very deserving members of media to go unallowed...

That being said.. and I'll say again, as I've said elsewhere.. I can only view this from the outside and not having complete knowledge of the situation, say that, I think it's being handled in the best way they know how to handle it.

Do some undeserving souls still get "out there?"... probably.. do some that are totally deserving get denied?... also, probably so.

Imperfect world? Yep, in all ways, this is an imperfect world.

I think they (RARA) are doing a bang up job of it, under the circumstances, probably the best any should or could expect. Could they do it better? Likely.... as could we all, in doing what we do, have room for improvement..

What websites and other publications have to try to do is.. as we are doing, just do what we can with what we can get..

In my case, as in, probably your case, we are going to be forced to do it, pretty much alone.

What this will do is limit coverage, for the most part, to the guys who bring in the most butts in the seats and the most hits per page.. the "BIG GUNS"..

Is this fair to the other divisions who bust their butts and lay their lives on the line to race and make the show.. nope.. not at all..

What we'll do is TRY our damndest to get, at least, some photos up to cover the other "guys" of the sport. I'm sure, you'll do the same.

Now, hopefully, this little rift in the puddle will settle down and we can all get on with getting the news out.

We're almost "there" .. Sept is just round the corner.. lots of good stuff happening, a top contender is not quite there yet. It would be a shame for all this effort to go on about the Bear have them not able to make it for a few $$... but.. when the bottom line comes bout.. it's gonna be. Can Rare Bear Air Racing make their insurance premium? Can they pay for their race gas? Can they pay for the carb they need?

Can they feed the team during the week (THANKS SCOLARIES!)

In the end, Scotty, Mark K., Mark D., Griffon Girl, Sue Petersen, Neal Nurmi, ALL OF US, are just fans.. just like the guys making the Bear happen this time round..

Just fans..

Let's get onto the RACIN!

OK??

Can ya feel the love, brothers and sisters..

Wayne Sagar

**Reever** · 07-06-2003, 04:19 PM

Sponsorship

I just have to respond to the comments about sponsorship in this thread.

My first year at Reno was 78. I haven't missed a year since. I covered the races, with press credentials, as a photographer for ten years. The cost of producing photos and finding publications that were interested was very discouraging. Selling photos on the side to recover some of my cost brought in little at best.

One year, at a function held at a hotel in Reno, I was part of a discussion that included a very well known unlimited pilot. The main point of this gentleman was, networks and SPONSORS want a series of races. A points chase, a championship and the continuing interest that comes with a series. At this time, RARA had an exclusive contract with "Skyfire." ESPN had shown some interest, even going as far as to cover the races for one year.

(I think it goes without saying, the unlimiteds could never run a series like NASCAR or the APBA Unlimiteds. The cost and availability of parts just won't let it happen.)

Giving "Skyfire" an exclusive contract was the wrong direction to go! In order for the aircraft owners to attract sponsors, they need the coverage that a company like ESPN brings.

For me there is a small glimmer of hope. Las Vegas. Reno and Las Vegas. Two races. Then add a third and have something along the lines of horse racing. A Triple Crown

RARA has to understand that the growth of the sport of air racing is in their own best interest. Even expansion to other venues! RARA needs to look past their own front gate.

Steve Carter

**Unregistered** · 07-06-2003, 04:24 PM

TV Coverage

The answer to the TV question is easy. If RARA wants to get TV coverage, all they have to do is pay for it. I just finished watching the Champ Car race on TV. Many of you may think that with 16 races and full time sponsorship on many of the cars, that CBS is paying CART to cover the race. That would be wrong. They don't even do it for free. CART has to pay CBS to cover the races, then sell advertising time to try to recoup their cost. Same goes for SpeedTV.

I suspect the reason RARA would never do this is that they don't need to. The seats are pretty well sold out on the weekend. The delta to pay up for TV coverage is huge compared to the small gain from a few more seats. Or hypothetically speaking, they could boost interest a bunch and then jack up the price of seats, since they still have a limited number to sell. They might even be able to raise the ticket price enough to cover the cost of the TV coverage.

Sometimes people don't recognize when they have it good. Now is one of those times. We have a great sport. It does not cost too much yet to gain entry. And the world has not discovered it. To my way of thinking, that is as good as it gets.

Rob C.

**AAFO_WSagar** · 07-06-2003, 04:57 PM

Re: TV Coverage

Originally posted by Unregistered
The answer to the TV question is easy. If RARA wants to get TV coverage, all they have to do is pay for it.

Rob,

I usually try to stay out of direct comments about TV at Reno due to my involvement with the 2000 production by World of Wings at the event creating a situation of potential "bias" .. however, in this case, I'll just state the facts as I know them.

Though in interviews with our former staffer here at aafo, Mark Daniels, RARA CEO, Mike Houghton, is quoted as saying that the reason there is no TV coverage is, indeed, as you state it, in the case of World of Wings, this is not at all accurate.

In 2000, the production of World of Wings was entirely funded by WoW at no cost to RARA and it was also unpromoted by the association.

Part of any production out of Reno seems to be the difficulty in selling the show to any network, as it seems the dollar flow goes in that direction also. ie: the production company has to pay for the air time, then recoup their airing costs by selling adverts... This is, unless a network decides to buy the production and recoup their costs by the same method.

I will not begin to say that I know all the "ins-outs" of how all of this works, I was just hired as a "consultant" and a guy to hold a mic and say some lines and commentary..

Subsequent to the production in 2000, the show aired on SpeedVision, which is now the "SpeedChannel" about a half dozen times in various time slots for a couple of weeks in Aug of 2001.

When the WoW production team approached RARA for rights to coverage for the 2001 event, they were presented with a package by the assn that not only did not cost RARA, it was set to a price to be paid by the production company that simply put, priced the coverage out of the market. There was no planned coverage and in the end, it saved WoW many thousands of dollars, as we all know, the races were cancelled and regardless of whether or not a contract had been signed and a production planned, there would have been no show but most of the production costs would have still have been borne by WoW....

As of PRS 2003, we met with a man who is representing a production that is being planned for Reno 2003, I do not remember his name, nor the name of the production company. I do not have any details of how their financial arrangements are being done either. However, I did ask where it (the show) would air and the response indicated that it was not set and that the production would be presented for consideration by several networks once it was "in the can" or, if I'm mistaken on the time line of that process, perhaps, he (the production guy I met) meant to say that it would be pre-sold and would air, live.. Be all that as it may, the production, as of my conversation with this gentleman, was unsold at that time. This is much the same as where WoW was as we went into Reno and came out with "film in the can" headed to the edit room..

The show went on to win several awards, however, it remained a difficult sell and there were no subsequent episodes... (it was a proposed series, of which, the Reno episode was the "Special Premier Episode")

Originally posted by Unregistered
Sometimes people don't recognize when they have it good. Now is one of those times. We have a great sport. It does not cost too much yet to gain entry. And the world has not discovered it. To my way of thinking, that is as good as it gets.

Rob, as fans, it may be as good at is gets for us, for the racers, the continued success of the sport is going to depend on funding, and this is not going to happen if the races continue as a one off affair.

The two most notable airplanes now in the "news" are funded by very wealthy individuals, for the most part, as "out of pocket" expenses. Most of the rest of the "contenders" in one way or other, are in similar positions. A few have some fairly good sponsorship deals to help out but... for the most part, it's not a paying venture and in truth, it's much more the reverse cash flow issue.

This has to change or, eventually, we'll just see the amount of really fast airplanes dwindle, year by year, until what we have is a really broad "Bronze" division broken into three speed categories...

That, in my opinion, is the reality of the current situation. If Vegas succeeds, and perhaps a few more demonstration races come on-line, this *might* interest major sponsors and or, major network interest. Unless/until that happens, I think major sponsorship and or network deals will remain an ellusive "brass ring" for the various promotors of this sport..

Wayne Sagar

**Reever** · 07-06-2003, 04:57 PM

It may be good for you and me Rob, but it's not good for the owners of the aircraft. And they are the show. They need some coverage so they can attract sponsorship.

**rwflyboy** · 07-07-2003, 06:11 AM

you know boys........

Well, we have gone through a couple of threads and we are "there" again. For those of you who live on the west coast and want more info...shame on you for not driving a couple of hundred miles to ask questions and snap a few "approved" photos and send them to the message boards of all the sites out there to help grow the sport. Those of us who live on the east side of Mississippi and those who live on the east side of the Atlantic Ocean would love to see more of what is going on...especially in person. To make it to Reno is not easy from this side of the world much less track down a racing crew we like to follow. If I could get pictures from a "friend" on my brothers Risky Business remodel, I would put up the pix on the website and be able to keep it current ....but Idaho is a couple of thousand miles away....more than an afternoon drive......my thought to those who want to know more about the crews out there......get in the car, enjoy this beautiful and free country we live on the way and visit those guys in their fabulous flying machines........

**Unregistered** · 07-07-2003, 07:07 PM

TV Coverage

Wayne, thanks for the clarification regarding WOW. That was an eye opener. The moral of the story is the same - the 'networks' (including all of the sports channels) will not front the production costs. As you point out, it does not have to be RARA that pays the bills, if another outfit wants to fill that role.

I gave up praying for sponsorship awhile back because I just could not make the leap from the current situation, when you add up the scarcity and cost of parts, the part time nature of the whole sport, and the single event per year. It is easy to envision a virtuous cycle where full time sponsorship begat full time crews which in turn filled enough orders to fund construction of new Merlins to full mighty mouse specs. That is CART and NASCAR, etc. It is just that the leap from here to there is so huge that I cannot envision it happening. Instead I hope for a couple more Mike Browns or Terry Blands to pick up where Tiger and Leeward, and maybe even Lyle, leave off. After all, the historic car racing situation runs much the same as Air Racing, except they do have a number of venues. They still don't have sponsors (much) or TV (much) even though they run a number of races and many of the cars cost as much or more than a Mustang. Some of them do build new engines from scratch and a lot of wealthy guys fund these things. Of course, they are easier and safer to drive, which I am sure makes it more enjoyable for a lot of the entrants. But I still think getting a couple more very wealthy guys involved is the best way to keep it going.

Anyway, that is where I see it going if we are lucky. I hope I am just a pessimist and you and T. Adams are ahead of the curve. I really do. In the meantime, I am happy to be able to get to Reno in September and enjoy the best few days out of the year. See you guys there!

RobC.

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