OMG

[holmes9]

Re: OMG

Why did my post disappear?

Thar be gentleman o' fortunes in this forum. They come n' plunder yer posts from time to time...

[Leo]

Re: OMG

Scotty, you could tell us, Is 1-8 even briefed to the racers as an option? I too have been out there and I would use it only as a last resrt, only marginally better than the desert floor.
In no way any comparable emergency but I have had a couple of surprise off-airport landings in sailplanes when rope breaks left me too far out to make it back. Non events, BUT something we trained and briefed, even practiced, and ran through our minds constantly. Thought I had a plan nailed. It happened, and in the moment that perfect plan runs into a million variables to process. In a costantly changing situation, you deal with it as best you can.
I will not second guess his methods or actions. He was there using his experience and judgement, not me. I remember a bunch of armchairing when Hinton and the RB went down. Everyone thought they could have done it better (I also remember it happened so fast that Hoover was nowhere near him when he went in).
I would like to hear his version, it would be more interesting and informative from his perspective than from ours as spectator's.
He's alive, thats all that matters.

[TwoZeroWest]

Re: OMG

Thar be gentleman o' fortunes in this forum. They come n' plunder yer posts from time to time...

Yeah, that's what I thought.

It's just that I made a carefully considered and respectful post that was in NO way off color. It was based on 32 years of aviation experience, the majority of which is professional, and the fact that this was my 33rd trip to the races (of which only 9/11 was a total bust). To have had it summarily removed with no public or PM'd explanation is really just amateur hour and VERY disappointing.

In the future, I'll limit my contributions, if any, to photos. Since spending time dedicated to offering knowledge and insight doesn't seem to be time well spent, I'll refrain.

We'll see how long this one lasts.

[Box A35]

Re: OMG

Yeah, that's what I thought.

It's just that I made a carefully considered and respectful post that was in NO way off color. It was based on 32 years of aviation experience, the majority of which is professional, and the fact that this was my 33rd trip to the races (of which only 9/11 was a total bust). To have had it summarily removed with no public or PM'd explanation is really just amateur hour and VERY disappointing.

In the future, I'll limit my contributions, if any, to photos. Since spending time dedicated to offering knowledge and insight doesn't seem to be time well spent, I'll refrain.

We'll see how long this one lasts.

I saw your post, did not think it crossed any "lines" at all.

Your sink rate comment got me thinking that the out the window picture must have really changed turning from the quartering tailwind to the headwind too.

One thing I think is for sure is that he did 100% better than any of the posters here, including me. He does walk away.

I have 17,000+ hours and I wanted NO part of those winds under those conditions.

[wolfee]

Re: OMG

Yeah, that's what I thought.

It's just that I made a carefully considered and respectful post that was in NO way off color. It was based on 32 years of aviation experience, the majority of which is professional, and the fact that this was my 33rd trip to the races (of which only 9/11 was a total bust). To have had it summarily removed with no public or PM'd explanation is really just amateur hour and VERY disappointing.

In the future, I'll limit my contributions, if any, to photos. Since spending time dedicated to offering knowledge and insight doesn't seem to be time well spent, I'll refrain.

We'll see how long this one lasts.

Looking back at your post (I have that power), I see why MMperk removed the post. It is not your place to say he could have done it better or another way. We don't remove posts often, but when we do it is usually due to this kind of finger pointing / he should have done it this way kind of posts.

George is a member here, and I am sure he will enlighten us all in due time.


Cheers

Wolfee

[dvddude]

Re: OMG

First off, I want to say that I thought George did an outstanding job of getting the airplane down in a survivable crash landing despite being dealt a very tenuous situation. The fact that he survived - is due - no doubt to his experience and skills as an aviator. With that being said, I have a couple of questions.

When I saw the event unfolding before my own eyes, I thought that he might have intentionally "cartwheeled" the airplane in order to dissipate the excess energy he had to get it stopped. All I remember thinking at the time was that he was heading straight for the jet pits and it was going to get ugly really, really fast. In the video, we can clearly see that the nose of the aircraft rises dramatically and then the airplane drops the right wing off very rapidly. Some people have said that the aircraft hit some kind of dirt mound or berm, others said that he caught a sudden gust of wind, hence the extreme nose high attitude. Is it possible that he did this intentionally? What about the wing drop-off? Did the airplane stall or did he kick in some rudder to make the aircraft cartwheel?

BTW, this technique of "cartwheeling" has some precedence in the warbird world in regards to landing with no power. In the original P-51 manual during W.W. II, it states to NOT ditch the P-51 in a straight wings level attitude on water or the ocean. The reason was that the big belly scoop would act as a huge drag device and virtually disintegrate the fuselage very quickly, with the pilot having very little chance of surviving. At the time, the manual stated to get the Mustang down close to the water just above stall speed and at the last minute, kick in full rudder to try to "cartwheel" the aircraft to try to lose energy and hopefully let the wings bear the brunt of impact without damaging the fuselage. I believe at some point, later in the war, this procedure was changed after several Mustang pilots proved that you could successfully ditch the Mustang on water in a wings level attitude. I don't have a Mustang manual, but I have seen the excerpts from it in regards to this procedure. Can someone who has access to this version of the Mustang manual post what I am talking about?

Is it possible that this was George's plan all along to avoid catastrophe in the jet pits?

I would love to hear George's take on all of this, if any of you can persuade him to post here. This is very fascinating to me.

What do others' think?

[jhall@jetav.com]

Re: OMG

Scotty, you could tell us, Is 1-8 even briefed to the racers as an option?

18 is briefed as an option, and a portion of it has been resurfaced. I was in the Jet chalet when George landed, hope I never have that sight picture again!

[gp70442]

Re: OMG

Pretty obvious from the video that he hit a berm or bump that launched him. That's the way it looked from where I was in the stands too.

GP

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: OMG

hmmm more Communist censoring I see....

OK, we'll go back to letting everyone say whatever they want about anyone they feel like saying it about...

Any of you who want to discuss George's landing WITH George, let me know, I'll put you in personal contact with him. You can then go visit him, sit with him face to face, explain to him why you think you know what he did and why you would have done it differently...

This board is never going to be a place where we fans get to armchair quarterback the pilots who lay their hard work and lives on the line to entertain us and then have to read a bunch of B U L L S H I T from a bunch of folks who think they know better..