Miss Ashley II

[Mustang1957]

One of my favorite air racers of all time was miss ashley II. I was sad to hear it crashed many years ago. anyone know what happen to the wreckage? it would be nice to have it rebuilt or a newbuild of same plane.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Miss Ashley II

I'm not sure what eventually became of the wreckage, but think it safe to say that it was unrebuildable.. I know Bill poured his life and blood into that racer along with all who worked on her, and she was an amazing craft to be sure. I once asked Bill if he'd ever consider doing it again and I can't remember his exact answer but it was pretty well negative.

For one, the $$ to do it would be prohibitive and for another, he sold the jigs that were used to create the fuselage.

I had the honor to work on that airplane.... if you can call pulling all the screws out of the old doghouse in preparation for the "sex change" scoop design "working", as well as being allowed inside the team as a helper and friend... those were some of the best of times, followed by the worst of times...

[spacegrrrl]

Re: Miss Ashley II

I can't imagine there is anyting left that would be useful to build a new one. There were very few parts that weren't either fabricated from scratch (the entire fuselage and vertical fin for example) or easy to find (the Lear wing and horizintal). The landing gear was Piper parts as I remember.

I'd love to see someone build another one but I expect starting fresh would be the best way.

Spacegrrrl

[Mustang1957]

Re: Miss Ashley II

it was sold for scrap.

[flyingjibus]

Re: Miss Ashley II

I miss that plane but mostly I miss Gary. He was a huge part of the Races.

[ShermB]

Re: Miss Ashley II

AMEN to that.

[JET1]

I had to go to the crash site

...with the FAA etc. there was VERY LITTLE left and it was scattered across the area of a football field or more. its something that YOU DO NOT want to ever have to see or do.
blue skies Gary...

[spacegrrrl]

Re: Miss Ashley II

So I was lucky enough to interact with Bill regularly early in the Vendetta/MA II project. Bill originally was trying to get Bill Reinschild (sp) to be the partner in the project. Of course the first pitch was being made at 2:00 AM at the Nugget after the awards banquet and the amount of adult beverage and the luck at the tables distracted the conversation enough to keep the deal from closing that night.

Bill would show me pictures of the project as it came together. He started with all the non-mustang parts from Vendetta (he worked a deal with Dilley for them). The Lear wing had spar damage on one side after the off field landing that ended Vendetta's career but the rest of the stuff was all there. So other than fixing the wing Bill needed to build a fuselage and vertical fin using the original engineering drawings for the P-51 (I think he aquired a copy form the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum but I could have that wrong). I remember saying I was pretty amazed he was building a P-51 from drawings and he said "Michele, its just like like building an RV-4, only bigger and with a two inch fuel line!"

Another bit of trivia I just remembered. At one time Bill considered using reproduction nose parts from a Griffon Spitfire. There were lots of places in England that were producing almost anything you need for a Spit. He even had a small model he'd carry around to show folks what it would have looked like. Later I guess he realized it wasn't going to be any easier to do that than just build it as a P-51.

That's not to say it was as easy as an RV. Everything had to be fabricated from scratch and even the most basic things could be challenging. For example I remember when Bill started on the "H" model vertical fin he discovered the grade of aluminum originally used for the spar was impossible to source. He was going to have to use another type and then heat treat it. So it's not a "call up P-51s R US and order P-51 tail kit 7". Also once he settled on the Griffon (he found a great source of engines that made that decision easy) he was going to have to basically invent his own firewall forward.

Once Bill and Gary came together things really took off and the amazing racer we all saw came into being. I know Gary was excited to step up to a racer be believed could take the gold. We can only guess what we might have seen out of MA II if she was still around.

I can tell you first hand I was given all the flight data recorded when Dilley developed Vendetta and based on that I'm sure if someone ever managed to sort out the Griffon she could have seen 500 MPH. If I find the projections I'll try and post them in this thread. Also, once the correct configuration of the ailerons was sorted everyone that ever flew a Learstang said it was a great plane to fly.

I'd love to see someone try another Learstang. I'd go back to the Merlin if it as up to me though as todays Merlins seem pretty impressive and the difference in weight is substantial. The prop situation for the merlin is also a lot better. Now add a "boil off" cooling system and wow!

Maybe a Yakstang! Seems like here is a lot of interest in the R-2800 now and there is a pretty popular Yak in need of a new wing..... just sayin...

Spacegrrrl

[wingman]

Re: Miss Ashley II

Great post, SG...

Actually Bill started fabricating Mustang parts long before the Lear stuff became available. The Rogers brothers originally planned a Red Baron tribute aircraft, and Bill bought up a bunch of machine shop stuff when Braniff (I think) went bankrupt. He was fairly far along with fuselage parts when the Dilley material came along.

I vividly remember many years ago sitting in a pickup at Reno with this guy from Texas who was enthusiatically showing me a pile of 4x6 prints of formers and longerons etc. that he was going to use to rebuild the Red Baron. I really wondered about him and the project at the time.

Little did I know....

Neal

[spacegrrrl]

Re: Miss Ashley II

I remember he started out trying to "bring back' the Red Baron. Does anyone know what became of that project?

Spacegrrrl

[planecrazy2]

Re: Miss Ashley II

Jet, good to see you're back.

Yes MAII was a "good look'in bird". Had some high hopes for the team.

Man those were some good 'ol days of racing exotics. I fear we won't ever see another team effort like the Pond Racer, Vendetta, Tsunami, MAII, Super Corsair and the RB-51 to name a few....GG could be the last of the true exotics we may ever get to see.

As a 10 yr old kid I was lucky enough to meet Gary at the San Diego 1000, in the early seventies. He was flying the P-38. His loss was tough to witness. R.I.P. Gary.

[spacegrrrl]

Re: Miss Ashley II

Jet, good to see you're back.

Yes MAII was a "good look'in bird". Had some high hopes for the team.

Man those were some good 'ol days of racing exotics. I fear we won't ever see another team effort like the Pond Racer, Vendetta, Tsunami, MAII, Super Corsair and the RB-51 to name a few....GG could be the last of the true exotics we may ever get to see.

As a 10 yr old kid I was lucky enough to meet Gary at the San Diego 1000, in the early seventies. He was flying the P-38. His loss was tough to witness. R.I.P. Gary.

I'd love to say I'd expect to see similar dedicated exotic unlimited racers in the future. We know of at least three in the works, but given the speeds the super sports are showing and the fact I think the cost to build a really seriously competitive super sport has to be a fraction of an unlimited project, the future of real air racing inovation is probably the super sport class.

And based on the memories this thread has brought, I'll be toasting the memory of Gary tonight.

Spacegrrrl

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Miss Ashley II

And based on the memories this thread has brought, I'll be toasting the memory of Gary tonight.

Michelle, you once "scolded" me for leaving Bill Rogers out of the "toast" (so to speak).. I don't know if too many people know how hard that event was on him.. I looked deeply into his eyes as they were breaking down the pits and to say he had a broken heart would be understatement...

Bill Rogers is one of the few... Here's to Bill Rogers and ALL of the folks who were responsible for making a dream come true. However short lived it was, man... those were the days!

[RAD2LTR]

Re: Miss Ashley II

Interesting thread. Lots of info I didn't know. As for never seeing any more wild builds, we have American Spirit, Wildfire, Shockwave, and Tsunami all moving forward as fast as they can (Ok, a barnacle might move faster than some of these projects but they are at least partly built or being rebuilt in the case of Tsunami.) We might see some interesting stuff with Sea Furies in the near future as well. I think Sept Fury has more to give with further development. The want to do it just needs to be there.

Heck, since the Ghost was mentioned, I think the boil off system could be a very hot ticket assuming the bugs are worked out. Stiletto showed the world that a scoopless mustang could be very fast (for the day) on less power, so lets move forward 20 years and run current race power. My guess is that it will be very fast, perhaps fast enough to make the other top mustangs think about doing the same mod (who knows.)

Lets go one step further. Take Tsunami. Its in the rebuild process so why not take all the current go fast ideas, and incorporate them into the build. Why not use the info for a Learstang and add a boil off system to it? The Lear wing is fast, the boil off system is fast, a modern Merlin is fast, and the plane is going almost back to square one. That sounds like a perfect time to start adding it all up while back on the drawing board. If it were me (HUGE IF) doing the rebuild, I'd be looking at all the data I could get my hands on from all the past and present racers out there. They have to build/find the parts anyway. Rebuilding Tsunami back to the way it was when it crashed is the easy way, and it should fly the way it did before, and it was pretty fast back then. Since all the parts need to be remade anyway, I say explore other options.

I think we will see more one-off hybrids in the future. There aren't many now, but give it time and history might repeat its self.

Will

[John H]

Re: Miss Ashley II

It was a horrible day for sure and I always think about it this time of year. I always remember the smile on Gary's face that day, whether it was when he was coming out of his trailer in the morning, or when he was standing next to the airplane waiting to get in it to take off for the race. I could just kick myself that I didn't take a picture of him standing there....He was just beaming standing there in that uniform next to the tail. I too remember Bill's grief when we talked to him that night at the Hilton and seeing the crew hug each other as they packed up the pit area.