Mr. Matt Jackson's Mayday

[Coyote Chris]

I need alittle mechanical interpretation. I am no 4360 whiz for sure and only remember the working cutaway we had at school. I was reading Mr. Matt Jackson's great article in the current Air Classics about his Reno Mayday on Friday at 300 ft.
I would like an interpretation of his last sentence so I will quote it.
"The rear most master rod had let go sending heat up to the piston, igniting the fuel charge, back firing, burning off the fuel, pre-igniting, and burning up the supercharger."

I can certainly see where a destroyed supercharger would make the engine quit (Didnt 57 have a mayday like that?) And a broken master rod could create havoc. But I am trying to put the "broken rod sending heat to the piston thing into my brain. "

Chris

[Race5]

Re: Mr. Matt Jackson's Mayday

I need alittle mechanical interpretation. I am no 4360 whiz for sure and only remember the working cutaway we had at school. I was reading Mr. Matt Jackson's great article in the current Air Classics about his Reno Mayday on Friday at 300 ft.
I would like an interpretation of his last sentence so I will quote it.
"The rear most master rod had let go sending heat up to the piston, igniting the fuel charge, back firing, burning off the fuel, pre-igniting, and burning up the supercharger."

I can certainly see where a destroyed supercharger would make the engine quit (Didnt 57 have a mayday like that?) And a broken master rod could create havoc. But I am trying to put the "broken rod sending heat to the piston thing into my brain. "

Chris

Maybe it was the rod bearing that let go. The friction would rise and heat up the rod and piston.

[Coyote Chris]

Re: Mr. Matt Jackson's Mayday

That is an idea. Oil, both from bearing "throwoff" and spray, provides important cooling functions. If this shower of oil no longer was reaching the cylinder wall and rod, heat could build up fast.

[Shawn Aro]

Re: Mr. Matt Jackson's Mayday

i took this on Friday right it was taken the engine let go. shawn

[Matt Jackson]

Re: Mr. Matt Jackson's Mayday

I need alittle mechanical interpretation. I am no 4360 whiz for sure and only remember the working cutaway we had at school. I was reading Mr. Matt Jackson's great article in the current Air Classics about his Reno Mayday on Friday at 300 ft.
I would like an interpretation of his last sentence so I will quote it.
"The rear most master rod had let go sending heat up to the piston, igniting the fuel charge, back firing, burning off the fuel, pre-igniting, and burning up the supercharger."

I can certainly see where a destroyed supercharger would make the engine quit (Didnt 57 have a mayday like that?) And a broken master rod could create havoc. But I am trying to put the "broken rod sending heat to the piston thing into my brain. "

Chris

Chris the explanation is a bit muddled in the article. The information was relayed by me to the editor over the phone. He left out a couple key words. Ill try an make a simple explanation. The failure is simple to explain. Its apparent that the rear master rod bearing failed during my take-off roll. I suspect it really started earlier in the day during the first ground run to heat up the oil and engine for the race later in the day. We typically do the early ground run to make sure the oil is nice and warm and we dont have to spent a bunch of time during the race period. SO down the runway I go. The cylinder temp gauge in the plane is off the rear most maser rod cylinder. History has shown us that on the 4360 the rear runs the hottest. Something to do with air flow around the rear of the engine on the last row of cylinders near the carburator. It has a long way to travel and 28 cylinders to cool. So apparently the bearing goes away and the rod begins to glow. Yes I said glow. The heat from this tremendous friction travels up the master rod the least path of resistance to the piston on the master rod cylinder. The cylinder temp probe started climbing just as I broke ground. The needle went way above its normal location for takeoff. Just as the needle passed redline the engine coughed and quit. This is because the glowing master rod and extremely hot piston preignites the fuel that is now entering the cylinder through the intake valve. This pre- ignition is before the intake valve has a chance to close. Pre-ignition mean igniting the fuel before it is scheduled to be ignited. So the power stroke explosion is now rushing through this partially open intake valve right into the induction trunk thus igniting all the fuel from the supercharger. Litterally there is an explosion in the supercharger. The engine quits because there is no fuel left after the explosion to power the remaining 27 cylinders. After the engine quits the heat disapates on the hot piston long enough to allow the supercharger to replenish the induction trunks with raw fuel, so the engine comes back to life. It runs again for a few seconds and then the piston is back to preigniting the fuel. Engine quits again. It quit four times before I finally pulled the mixture and landed the plane. That's the data. I hope I made it clear for you. Thanks for your interest in the matter. I hope I explained it well enough for you to understand.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Mr. Matt Jackson's Mayday

Matt,



Good job getting her back on the ground!

[spacegrrrl]

Re: Mr. Matt Jackson's Mayday

Chris the explanation is a bit muddled in the article. The information was relayed by me to the editor over the phone. He left out a couple key words. Ill try an make a simple explanation. The failure is simple to explain. Its apparent that the rear master rod bearing failed during my take-off roll. I suspect it really started earlier in the day during the first ground run to heat up the oil and engine for the race later in the day. We typically do the early ground run to make sure the oil is nice and warm and we dont have to spent a bunch of time during the race period. SO down the runway I go. The cylinder temp gauge in the plane is off the rear most maser rod cylinder. History has shown us that on the 4360 the rear runs the hottest. Something to do with air flow around the rear of the engine on the last row of cylinders near the carburator. It has a long way to travel and 28 cylinders to cool. So apparently the bearing goes away and the rod begins to glow. Yes I said glow. The heat from this tremendous friction travels up the master rod the least path of resistance to the piston on the master rod cylinder. The cylinder temp probe started climbing just as I broke ground. The needle went way above its normal location for takeoff. Just as the needle passed redline the engine coughed and quit. This is because the glowing master rod and extremely hot piston preignites the fuel that is now entering the cylinder through the intake valve. This pre- ignition is before the intake valve has a chance to close. Pre-ignition mean igniting the fuel before it is scheduled to be ignited. So the power stroke explosion is now rushing through this partially open intake valve right into the induction trunk thus igniting all the fuel from the supercharger. Litterally there is an explosion in the supercharger. The engine quits because there is no fuel left after the explosion to power the remaining 27 cylinders. After the engine quits the heat disapates on the hot piston long enough to allow the supercharger to replenish the induction trunks with raw fuel, so the engine comes back to life. It runs again for a few seconds and then the piston is back to preigniting the fuel. Engine quits again. It quit four times before I finally pulled the mixture and landed the plane. That's the data. I hope I made it clear for you. Thanks for your interest in the matter. I hope I explained it well enough for you to understand.

Thanks Matt!

This is one of the reasons I love this forum. We get to see just how these amazing complicated aircraft work (and don't work) in great detail. Where else could you read about how something as complex as a how a 4360 fails at the component level when pushed racing?

It makes me want to find a big radial and rebuild it just to see if I could figure it all out! :-)

Spaqcegrrrl

[wingman]

Re: Mr. Matt Jackson's Mayday

Matt -- Thanks for one of the very best descriptions I've ever seen of a radial engine meltdown. And like Wayne said, great job recovering the racer...

I assume you never got the gear up?

This is from pylon 2 during the landing.

Neal

[Matt Jackson]

Re: Mr. Matt Jackson's Mayday

The gear was up the second I broke ground. I would have never made it around the corner with it down. Fortunately I was flying the best climbing plane out there. I think I would have certainly not made it in anything else. Each time the engine came back to life I climbed another 300 ft. It got me to 1200 AGL on the turn to down wind.

[wingman]

Re: Mr. Matt Jackson's Mayday

Matt -- This always looks so easy and straightforward from the gound (at least when there's not smoke and fire involved) -- just bend it around and put it down, right? Your description makes it very clear just what is really involved when dealing with a dying engine with little airspeed and no altitude. Thanks for saving both the bird and your own pink behind...

Reminds me a bit of Skip in the 500 mph lap attempt years ago, when that Merlin let go in a very difficult place and he managed to get Dago down with no damage to himself or the airplane.

Thanks for coming around here and being willing to talk about this. Most of us fans really have no idea what's invoved in this kind of event until someone who was there is willing to really discuss what happened.

Neal

[Whiteside]

Re: Mr. Matt Jackson's Mayday

Wow Matt, pretty cool sequence there!
You were so calm on el radio I didn't realize it had quit!
How about an account of the landing in Bishop with that clipped 51 on the way home from the races.
See ya soon,
Will Whiteside

[taglialavore]

Re: Mr. Matt Jackson's Mayday

Matt, that´s an excellent explanation, you should be a kind of teacher!
I really appreciate you spend your time telling us this great stuff, thank you a lot!! Well didactic.
By the way, one more question please, the bearing quits because lack of oil or the cage broke away? or the first produced the second?
Thank you very much Matt

[Matt Jackson]

Re: Mr. Matt Jackson's Mayday

The engine was a 1978 overhaul. So the bottom line here is it really didnt owe us too much. This was the engine from Furias that had 14 cylinders changed, new ignition and carb installed. It has been running like a top and was perfect after the qualification run on Monday. We always pull the screens and the screens were perfectly clean. Not even carbon was visable. We were all walking around slapping each other on the back at how well the engine was running. Apparently on Friday mornings run the silver on the rear master rod bearing started to delaminate. It could have been the cold night causing poor lubrication on the start that morning. You can bet we will pre-oil every start now. Its just one of those unfortunate adventures in air racing. If it were easy they would call it winning.

Matt J

[Matt Jackson]

Re: Mr. Matt Jackson's Mayday

Wow Matt, pretty cool sequence there!
You were so calm on el radio I didn't realize it had quit!
How about an account of the landing in Bishop with that clipped 51 on the way home from the races.
See ya soon,
Will Whiteside

Will the event happened on the way to Reno in Stilletto in 1992. I had stopped to check the new boiler system and basically visit my friends in Bishop oin way to Reno. Years ago I made a habit of stopping of there for the locals to come out and have a look at the plane. This particuar time I was taking off. Just as the gear went in the well the engine did a tremdous sneeze. It was so violent that the pressure from the sneeze popped my ears in the cock-pit. That plane had poor seals on the the floor board areas aft of the firewall, so when it sneezed I felt the pressure on my ears in the cock-pit. I was prepared to put it in the rocks off the runway to the north of the airport. I reached over to shut off the switches. What I had forgotten was the the primer switch was installed upside down. The MOF guys had mounted the the switces upside down because someone there in power thought the switches might turn them selves off in a high g situation. Well needless to say when I reached over the hammer the switches off ( like in the movies) I actually hit the primer switch by accident. When I did the engine sputtered back to life. I found that if I held the switch down the engine would stumble just enough to keep the plane barely in the air. I executed a left 270 turn at 50 ft off the ground at a airspeed I would have never believed you could turn a Mustang. She held onto what little altitude I had and I made the 270 which put me 90 degrees to the runway I took off from. Back then the old east west runways wqas overgrow and abandoned. I didnt even know there was a runway there under waist high weed. I was just happy to be bellying the plane somewhere on the airport. At the last minute I threw the gear out. I have a photo from a local that was photographing my takeoff showing my tailwheel in the dirst and my mains about 2 feet in the air with the right main gear at a 45 degree angle. The next shot was the plane on the ground with the claim shell doors still open. I rocketed through these waist high weeds to discover a 3 foot deep ditch across the old runway. The plane hit this ditch and shot back into the air. When she bounced back down I shot across the main runway and took out the windsock poll with my wing just inboard the pitot tube mast. The palne rocketed along with dirt billowing into the cockpit. I was blinded by the dirt and had no idea where I was headed. I was just standing on the brakes and trying to keep it straight as I could. I finally thought it was time to ground loop the plane so I kicked the rudder and spun around to the right. When she came to a stop I was across the the runway I had taken off on and parallel to a 20 foot wide 10 ft deep ditch. Again I had not a clue where I was little own did I see that ditch. Mike Nixon had been driving up to reno and was just coming through Bishop. He apprently viewed my low level turn right over the edge of town. He came driving up and one day later I had a engine and was back on my way to Reno. I think I finished that year in 4th place with an engine that had sevveral different owners. I remember Mickey Rupp coming by the plane at Reno and saying "hey I think that's my super charger on your engine". It was apparently painted his racing orange. Another guy came by and said, "hey those are my heads and banks on there" they were painted another strange color. Apparently Mike had grabbed anything that was laying around in his shop to get me up and running in one day. I was going crazy thinking all these guys are going to sue me for using their parts without their approval. Not long after the episode on the ramp they all came back by with Mike laughing at the fact that they had pulled a fast one on me. They all said Mike had called and they all agreed to let me use their parts. Thats what I call true friends.

[Lockheed Bob]

Re: Mr. Matt Jackson's Mayday

Matt great detail. When is your book with photos coming out? It sounds like something you should do. Thanks for the posts.