Mike Brown?

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Mike Brown?

Thanks Bruce, I think we all have better ways to spend our time than arguing on the Internet... which is why I do delete some messages and restrict members from time to time. Regarding the member in question, there is a history of this sort of callout and I've decided, I don't have time to watch him to keep the peace so....

Thanks again for your contributions, we've all worked hard to make this a HAPPY PLACE to visit. Having folks like you being comfortable here is very important to the sport, I'll do my bestgoing to do my best to keep it so..

On that.. I've always alowed the race pilots and crew to have a bit of "levity" on the "keep the peace" rules.. I think we ALL enjoy the banter at times and I'd LOVE to see Tiger come back and post some... it's been a LONG time since he has but... ya never know...

[BuckyD]

Re: Mike Brown?

Quoting fm Wayne's previous post reply to 'BillA':

"OK.. I've had it with anonymous "nickname" users who never reveal who they are (while) pissing in people's Wheaties on this board..."

Amen-dittos, Wayne. Whenever I read comment posts coming from mean-spirited individuals- who obviously enjoy making careless, rude, unkind, disparaging & condescending remarks towards & about others just to stroke their own egos while ruining it for everyone else - it's really sad. They just prove they don't belong in the group & deserve the door that goes out. Such is the nature of internet forums, unfortunately. They are the main reason why we don't see more fan site participation from air racing pilots & team members.

I for one, really do enjoy & appreciate the fact that we have this place to come share our varied & mutual interests & enthusiasm f/air racing & aviation history & comaraderie & be able to have a forum f/good healthy dialogue, pro or con. Being around the great folks in the air racing community inspires my own individul efforts to share photo presentations & history notes via this msg board, to add something positive to help generate board participation,-while promoting the world's fastest motorsport, which we love 365 days of the year.

It's a rare treat for site goers to have board communications coming from air racing team pilots, owners & crewmembers to give us their first-hand experiences & technical insights. It's a shame to lose their involvement & support because of someone's bad attitude & poor manners. Let's make them all feel welcome, everyone, please! At the same time we should seriously try & be courteous to ALL during our message board exchanges,-especially when we feel the need to disagree or take-issue on sensitive topics of discussion. And, simply making an error by posting a wrong date or being-off on your trivia facts shouldn't warrant getting lambasted by the 'experts' either. Yeah, we've all 'choked' from time to time, but that's a good diplomatic opportunity f/those in the know who'll set us straight. Let's show some style & grace in the process, I say.

Anyway, sorry Bruce, about your unfortunate message board encounter experience & all the drama. Hope you'll continue to chime-in on our forum again in the future, because our group overall appreciates hearing & learning from air racing participants- who make it possible for all of us to enjoy AIR RACING.

Sincerely-

Don 'Bucky' Dawson

[Matt Jackson]

Re: Mike Brown?

I have watched it several times. I also watched every lap of every unlimited heat that week. The majority of the time 232 was out on the deadline. It was mentioned in the pilot brief before the final started. Like I said before, I agree it was probably a bit aggressive, but if Tiger had gone around the outside, and Mike had swung wide like he had been doing all week, the situation would have been just as dangerous. There were at least two other dangerous passes involving other aircraft that year, and the year after, that were not taken to the contest committee. The only difference is we didn't have on board footage from those incidents.

I just now viewed this post about the inside pass on Mike Brown. Being the the guy in charge of the pilot briefs. Ill explain why Tiger was not disqualified. In addition I will also make it clear that there are many inside passes that are not penalized. We brief every year that there are always people that like to hug the outer deadlines, especially coming around 6, 7, 8. In this particular case with Mike Brown, he had been running wide due to his aircraft race speeds being down from the previous year. Some thought it might be the short wings (my choice) or even the engine being down on power. In any event Mike being the racer he is decided to let the airplane out a bit on the corners. I clearly stated that due to this not unusual technique that passing could be done in these extreme cases. We briefed it and Tiger did it. There was no question in my mind that Mike was wide on the turn in question. The same thing happened a day or two earlier when Dan Martin had no choice but to slide inside on pylon two during a previous heat race. Mike complained about that as anyone would being a racer and wanting to win. We all and I mean all play the game. That's why they call it racing. I have seen Lyle in the Bear squeeze Skip off in Sunami so tight on 8 that there was not room to slide a piece of paper between their wings. Bottom line is there was no infraction by Tiger. The rules commitee viewed it and decided there was no infraction. The primary reason for the brief is to express safety concerns. While the rules say no inside passing , there are exceptions in the interest of safety. This was one of those cases. Things also happen on the race course you can't plan for in a brief. I don't care how many senario's you talk about there will always be a new one. In Mike's defense I have pushed a few guys wide in my day. Mike also was smart to protest. Everyone lays a protest now and then. I had Bill Rhineschild protest me on a Silver win because he said I dove below the R in Reno on a Sunday Race. Its part of the race. That's why they call it racing. If it were easy they would call it winning (Alan Preston line). In regards to Bruce never being able to pass Tiger. Come on guys Bruce won the race because he passed Tiger. I don't care how the pass was done and I don't care it was because Tiger blew up, he did pass him. Bruce was right there and won. Hell I passed Tiger in Dreadnought after he blew up. I had Tiger pass me so close over the top that I could hear the prop go by my canopy. Awesome pass I might add. The winner is the guy that passes the finish line first and does not get penalized.

[Lockheed Bob]

Re: Mike Brown?

Well said Matt. Thats what makes it called Racing as you stated. The rules make it as safe as possible but there are always exceptions. I hope this settles the debate. May the best pilot/plane continue to cross the finish line first.

[Big_Jim]

Re: Mike Brown?

I just now viewed this post about the inside pass on Mike Brown. Being the the guy in charge of the pilot briefs. Ill explain why Tiger was not disqualified. In addition I will also make it clear that there are many inside passes that are not penalized. We brief every year that there are always people that like to hug the outer deadlines, especially coming around 6, 7, 8. In this particular case with Mike Brown, he had been running wide due to his aircraft race speeds being down from the previous year. Some thought it might be the short wings (my choice) or even the engine being down on power. In any event Mike being the racer he is decided to let the airplane out a bit on the corners. I clearly stated that due to this not unusual technique that passing could be done in these extreme cases. We briefed it and Tiger did it. There was no question in my mind that Mike was wide on the turn in question. The same thing happened a day or two earlier when Dan Martin had no choice but to slide inside on pylon two during a previous heat race. Mike complained about that as anyone would being a racer and wanting to win. We all and I mean all play the game. That's why they call it racing. I have seen Lyle in the Bear squeeze Skip off in Sunami so tight on 8 that there was not room to slide a piece of paper between their wings. Bottom line is there was no infraction by Tiger. The rules commitee viewed it and decided there was no infraction. The primary reason for the brief is to express safety concerns. While the rules say no inside passing , there are exceptions in the interest of safety. This was one of those cases. Things also happen on the race course you can't plan for in a brief. I don't care how many senario's you talk about there will always be a new one. In Mike's defense I have pushed a few guys wide in my day. Mike also was smart to protest. Everyone lays a protest now and then. I had Bill Rhineschild protest me on a Silver win because he said I dove below the R in Reno on a Sunday Race. Its part of the race. That's why they call it racing. If it were easy they would call it winning (Alan Preston line). In regards to Bruce never being able to pass Tiger. Come on guys Bruce won the race because he passed Tiger. I don't care how the pass was done and I don't care it was because Tiger blew up, he did pass him. Bruce was right there and won. Hell I passed Tiger in Dreadnought after he blew up. I had Tiger pass me so close over the top that I could hear the prop go by my canopy. Awesome pass I might add. The winner is the guy that passes the finish line first and does not get penalized.

(Blowing smoke off both barrels....) "Any more questions?"

[bruce lockwood]

Re: Mike Brown?

Thanks Matt, all good points you brought up.......

Boy this is almost as fun as racing... Ha Ha! I think I'll start another thread on "How to fly the Me109" or something along those lines and get John Penney to join in. It could be fun and have a more constructive tone attached to it.

Bruce

[Reever]

Re: Mike Brown?

My question is, if a pilot is hugging the deadline and another racer has the speed to pass, what could the passing pilot do? Pull the power back? Lose all the momentum he had to make the pass?

Thank you,
Steve Carter