Flying the ME/BF-109 - Split From Mike Brown Thread

["Bear" Driver]

You never passed Mike on the inside..

sorry John to have incorrectly posted a date of 2007, which was the year you won.

The date for my reference post should have stated 2008.

By the way, how did you like the ME109E. I got to fly ours a time or 2.....interesting and exciting to say the least. Never felt real warm and fuzzy with the DB601. Always felt like the “chock” was on so to speak.

Cheers Bruce

Thnx, Bruce...was just yankin' your chain....I knew you meant the Gold Race of ought eight.

I find the Bf-109E3 "Emil" a privilege to fly...but, not a "pleasure". Yes that DB-601a seems to "throb"; not nearly as smooth as a Merlin or Allison. And, the controllable pitch prop not being constant speed makes a loop a quite task intensive maneuver. One has to wonder how much "available K" a Luftwaffe pilot would have to devote to engine/prop management during a close in maneuvering fight.

Really enjoyed watching your Reno wins and hold you, "Tiger" and Mike right up there in the top echelon of Unlimited race pilots.

Take care,

John

[supercub]

Re: Mike Brown?

If I can figure a way to hang a 4360 on the super cub, I'll be right up there with you guys LOL.

Since I'm the guy that started this thread, I'll have to chime in here a little and say.........it's amazing the directions a thread can end up going sometimes. All I wanted to know was if their was a chance Mike Brown might return to Reno, since he was always a contender and contributed greatly to the races. Like the old saying goes, only takes one rotten apple to spoil the barrel........hopefully that one rotten apple got thrown out.........funny we're all here for one reason........and that is our love of Air Racing. I went to Reno for the first time around 1966 or so, I believe it was the first races at Stead........continued going for several years, then missed several years. Luckily, I've been back the last 5-6 years and will continue to go for as long as I can, because, like all of you. I LOVE RENO and can't wait till Sept. In between races, I again, like all of you enjoy this site and hope it continues for a loooooooooong time.
Brian

[kiwiracefan]

Re: Mike Brown?

Wayne, I agree with you wholeheartedly, i come to the boards here because of the fact that the likes Matt Jackson, John Penney, Bruce Lockwood and any other pilots who Race, have raced, take their time to post here, and share their experiences and recounts of their past to us ground flyers. Any info they share is sooo valuable to guys like me who live at the bottom of the world and dream of visiting Reno so we can learn about the history of the races, the airplanes and the personalities that have given the Air Races such a long standing respect.
If people like BillA want to troll and post inflammatory messages, they dont belong here.
To Mr Lockwood, Penny, Jackson and others, THANK YOU GUYS for sharing and please keep sharing, its what makes us keep coming back for more!

[kiwiracefan]

Re: Mike Brown?

I find the Bf-109E3 "Emil" a privilege to fly...but, not a "pleasure". Yes that DB-601a seems to "throb"; not nearly as smooth as a Merlin or Allison. And, the controllable pitch prop not being constant speed makes a loop a quite task intensive maneuver. One has to wonder how much "available K" a Luftwaffe pilot would have to devote to engine/prop management during a close in maneuvering fight.

Mr Penney, thank you for the post, i remember talking to the late Mark Hanna about flying a 109-G10 that had the DB605a and he said exactly the same thing, it took a lot more thinking and brain power to fly the DB powered 109 than it did the Spanish Buchon's, he said the Buchon with a Merlin was get in and fly, where the G-10 was very much a systems airplane that had to be watched all the time.
I was wondering, have you had a chance to fly the I-16 Rata, and if so what is your opinion of it? I know Dave Morss has flown the CAF one and enjoyed it.

[morss]

Re: Mike Brown?

fyi I worte a litte piece on the I-16 second story down

http://www.davemorss.com/Warbirds.html

[Big_Jim]

Re: Mike Brown?

fyi I worte a litte piece on the I-16 second story down
http://www.davemorss.com/Warbirds.html

In Soviet Russia, Gee Bee flies you......

[kiwiracefan]

Re: Mike Brown?

Its a very good piece to Dave, the Poli's certainly were impressive, especially when all 8 were in the air together. I was lucky enough to spend several Warbirds over Wanaka airshows as a ramp rat during the 90's and early 2000's including the year you were here with the Wildcat.

[flyingjibus]

Re: Mike Brown?

In Soviet Russia, Gee Bee flies you......

CAnt stop laughing.


I will add that what Bruce and John are saying about the DB engine management is echoed in many of the biographies from Luftwaffe pilots I have read.

I cant remember which one it was, but he described it as having to have three brains all thinking about completely different things, Engine settings, aircraft position(speed, altitude, orientation, etc) and your enemies position and intentions.

Fascinating stuff and a pleasure to see it here, spoken from the mouths of legends who now fly these things for fun.

[kiwiracefan]

Re: Mike Brown?

Thanks Matt, all good points you brought up.......

Boy this is almost as fun as racing... Ha Ha! I think I'll start another thread on "How to fly the Me109" or something along those lines and get John Penney to join in. It could be fun and have a more constructive tone attached to it.

Bruce

That would most interesting to read about... I always look at the displays and think those guys flying have it so easy, but when you see them get out of the cockpit afterwards and they are sweating you know its tough....

[Leo]

Re: Mike Brown?

WOW.
Thanks Matt, John and Bruce. Please stay. I think we have all had issues at times, but Wayne does a great job of toning things down.
On "the pass", Matt said it all, and I know he has been there and back as a protester and protestee!

On the 109, in Lefty's Skyfire video he says that flying it (paraphrasing) is like making love to a beautiful woman with your wife watching. You just can't fully enjoy it...

[Big_Jim]

Re: Mike Brown?

On the 109, in Lefty's Skyfire video he says that flying it (paraphrasing) is like making love to a beautiful woman with your wife watching. You just can't fully enjoy it...

The story behind that quote is explained in detail in the Air Classics coverage of the CAF's Airshow '75. Lefty was trying to take one of the Buchon's up on a test flight (where it was just out of a 'rebuild'). If I remember he had an in-flight fire, electrical failure, and either a busted strut or blown tire on the landing....the flight lasted just a couple minutes...just enough time to get airborne, gear up, make one circuit of the pattern, and get it back on the ground...but he walked away shaking his head and made the above statement.

And for what it's worth, Lefty was referring to the Hispano HA-1112 Buchon...which had a Merlin turning a prop in the 'wrong' direction that the airframe was designed for. That posed a real issue for handling/flying characteristics of the aircraft. I'm pretty sure that EVERY Buchon on the civil register has crash landed at least once.

Both Bruce and John have had the opportunity to fly 'real' Damlier-Benz powered Messerschmitts....which while still tricky to fly and handle on the ground, are a bit closer to what Wiley intended.

[kiwiracefan]

Re: Mike Brown?

Both Bruce and John have had the opportunity to fly 'real' Damlier-Benz powered Messerschmitts....which while still tricky to fly and handle on the ground, are a bit closer to what Wiley intended.

Big Jim, im pretty sure that Paul Allen's Me-109E is a genuine E-4/7 that was recovered from a beach in france where it had crashed during the period around the battle of britain. If it is the air frame i am thinking, it was originally recovered and sold to Sir Tim Wallis' Alpine Fighter collection here in NZ, After Sir Tim's accident in a Mk XIV spitfire, the majority of the collection was sold off including a Mk V spitfire and another Hurricane, the Mk V spitfire and Hurricane were marketed as a package with the 109E as the Battle Of Britain collection. The Mk V had flown and was undergoing testing in the UK before being shipped to NZ when Sir Tim has his accident.
I believe and hopefully Mr Penney or someone else who knows the FHC collection can correct me if i am wrong in the origins of both the Mk V and 109.

[Randy Haskin]

Re: Mike Brown?

On the 109, in Lefty's Skyfire video he says that flying it (paraphrasing) is like making love to a beautiful woman with your wife watching. You just can't fully enjoy it...

You'd think that if Lefty was thinking up metaphors to explain what it was like, he'd be able to generate something that more of us could relate to.

[stuntflyr]

Flying the ME/BF-109

Now THAT'S funny!
Chris...

[bruce lockwood]

Re: Mike Brown?

Kiwiracefan,

As I recall in talking to Craig Charleston, you have most of the facts correct on this. It was my understanding that BF109E4 Werk-Nr: 3579 was the aircraft initially flown by Hans-Joachim Marseille and was the one in which he crashed landed onto a beach in Northern France. This supposedly took place at the onset of the Battle of Britain and most notably, prior to Marseille meteoric rise to fame. Werk-Nr3579 was subsequently recovered from the Beach by the Germans shortly there after. It was once again made airworthy, but ended its Wartime duty sometime there after as a “lawn dart” near the Polish/Russian border.

This BF109 in reference, Nr 3579, was the first of two BF109’s refurbish by Craig. It was beautifully restored down to its tinniest elements for David Price of the Museum of Flying. It was the 1st and at that time only BF109E to fly in its original configuration (DB601 and all the goodies) since the end of WWII. It currently resides at the Ed Russell Collection in Ontario, Canada.

The 2nd Bf109E was just as lovingly restored, and as you keenly pointed out, slated for Tim Wallace/Alpine Fighters prior to his unfortunate accident. It now resides with the Paul Allen/Museum of Flight Collection in Washington State. It was the 2nd one restored and the one that John Penny flies.

Cheers,
Bruce