Argonaut - R2800 first flight!

[Whiteside]

Re: Argonaut - R2800 first flight!

"You know, 99% of all these engine failures are coming out of the same shop, and there have been a lot of them. Now I live in a glass house so I can't throw stones, but it's one of those things that make you scratch your head and go hmmm......"

Naah... 1 in 100 2800 Overhauls fail. This was 1 in 100. Anderson Aero is the largest, busiest radial overhaul shop in the world. You wouldn't believe the professionalism exhibited by this company. Ray has compiled a group of experienced engine guys over the years and these guys know P&W and Wright engines.
I've been there and its impressive.
I fly behind one and I'm proud he is a sponsor of my team.
Will Whiteside

[flyingsailor]

Re: Argonaut - R2800 first flight!

Naah... 1 in 100 2800 Overhauls fail. This was 1 in 100. Anderson Aero is the largest, busiest radial overhaul shop in the world. You wouldn't believe the professionalism exhibited by this company. Ray has compiled a group of experienced engine guys over the years and these guys know P&W and Wright engines.
I've been there and its impressive.
I fly behind one and I'm proud he is a sponsor of my team.
Will Whiteside

Ray also built up the engines for the B-29 "FIFI" and when we did have a problem, he STOOD behind his work, sent one of his guys down to help diagnose, and then asked to bring the engine to his shop so they could pull off all the cylinders and do an in-depth inspection. He put our engine as priority and we had it back in short order. (KNOCKING ON WOOD) we have had little problems since. We will be having Ray build all of our engines from this point forward.

This shop is full of very skilled craftsmen and run by a true gentleman.

[Warbirds45]

Re: Argonaut - R2800 first flight!

The Sanders Team has one of the finest facilities for rebuilding warbirds, I try to get up that way once a month.
They have a great operation in place, the folks working for them have been around for a long time.
If the Sanders the new of a better place to have their motors rebuilt, i'm sure they would have gone in a different directions.

[Race 29]

Re: Argonaut - R2800 first flight!

I have to agree with Will. I really don't ever hear of that many R-2800 faliures. Very reliable engines!

Race 29

[kiwiracefan]

Re: Argonaut - R2800 first flight!

The above 2 posters are right, im sure that if the Sanders team didnt believe the work being done from various outside shops was up to standard and there was better out there then they would have gone to them.
And the R-2800 is an extremely reliable powerplant... for example, when was the last time race 86 or the stock bearcats didnt get through a race week due to powerplant issues?

[Matt58]

Re: Argonaut - R2800 first flight!

I see both sides of the argument presented here. Please believe me when I say that I am not trying to throw anyone or business under the bus. The only information I have about any engines that come from this shop are for racers or restorations and I am more than certain that they have a long list of quality rebuilds that place them as the premier radial rebuild/overhaul shop in the nation. What I believe the question being presented in the original post by Al Baby is, from the outside looking in, is that engines going into restorations or racers, no matter what model of engine, have had issues. I am NOT saying this is due to workmanship; from what I can gather, it seems to be in parts used during the rebuild. I also know that one or two bad apples can spoil the whole bunch, and I am sure that we all are making a big deal out of this because our favorite planes are sidelined while repairs are made. Like I stated earlier, I am more than certain that they have a long list of happy clients and I'm sure the list of work waiting is just as long. I can only imagine what a race radial or even a stock rebuild radial costs, and I can assure you, if I was the financialy responsible party paying for these engines, I would be asking the same questions.

Like I stated above, I have no dog in this fight, I am just a race and warbird enthusiast that gets butt-hurt when I can't see my favorite planes fly due to a freshly rebuilt radial gone south (i'm selfish!). I am NOT, say again, am NOT questioning workmanship; I am just agreeing with the question or statement posed in the orignal post by Al Baby. I am a techincal dumb-ass when it comes to radial engines, and like many others on this site, I come here to be educated. Please don't take this as an attack on anyone or anything, and if I am out of line, please let me know so I can save face before future posts.

[Sparrow]

Re: Argonaut - R2800 first flight!

Ray Anderson is a good guy and is a friend of mine. When an engine has a problem the first assumption is that regardless of anything else it has to be the fact the motor guy or his shop done screwed it up somehow and the rock throwing begins. In racing or in stock airplanes it is also about the systems and their functionality. I don't care WHO built the engine, if the systems aren't proper and won't do their job and support the engine it will fail. Everything has to play together as a team. The other thing to think about is the parts supply and the rebuilding of existing parts or manufacture of new replacement parts. Just cause it's new or NOS new doesn't mean it's any good. Most all of these parts are a minimum of 40 years old and a lot of the parts I use haven't been manufactured since the mid 40's to the mid 50's. Their service and cycle life is only so much. There were more radials used after the war and their production went on quite awhile so more of those parts are readily available. I can tell you from experience that just because it was new in cosmoline doesn't mean it will play. The point to all this is let the people involved figure out what is going on and allow them to get the issue resolved, this crap is tough enough without all of the extra curricular activity that is associated with an engine failure. Ray Anderson and his crew as well as the Sanders and their crew will figure it out. It should be a good package when it is complete, the photo’s of the conversion that I have seen are gorgeous and the workmanship appears to be first class.

[Scotty G]

Re: Argonaut - R2800 first flight!

Ray Anderson is a good guy and is a friend of mine. When an engine has a problem the first assumption is that regardless of anything else it has to be the fact the motor guy or his shop done screwed it up somehow and the rock throwing begins. In racing or in stock airplanes it is also about the systems and their functionality. I don't care WHO built the engine, if the systems aren't proper and won't do their job and support the engine it will fail. Everything has to play together as a team. The other thing to think about is the parts supply and the rebuilding of existing parts or manufacture of new replacement parts. Just cause it's new or NOS new doesn't mean it's any good. Most all of these parts are a minimum of 40 years old and a lot of the parts I use haven't been manufactured since the mid 40's to the mid 50's. Their service and cycle life is only so much. There were more radials used after the war and their production went on quite awhile so more of those parts are readily available. I can tell you from experience that just because it was new in cosmoline doesn't mean it will play. The point to all this is let the people involved figure out what is going on and allow them to get the issue resolved, this crap is tough enough without all of the extra curricular activity that is associated with an engine failure. Ray Anderson and his crew as well as the Sanders and their crew will figure it out. It should be a good package when it is complete, the photo’s of the conversion that I have seen are gorgeous and the workmanship appears to be first class.

+1

[IcePaq]

Re: Argonaut - R2800 first flight!

Ray also built up the engines for the B-29 "FIFI" and when we did have a problem, he STOOD behind his work, sent one of his guys down to help diagnose, and then asked to bring the engine to his shop so they could pull off all the cylinders and do an in-depth inspection. He put our engine as priority and we had it back in short order. (KNOCKING ON WOOD) we have had little problems since. We will be having Ray build all of our engines from this point forward.

This shop is full of very skilled craftsmen and run by a true gentleman.

Curious.....did the 3350s for fifi come off of the connies that were in miami?

[3350nut]

Re: Argonaut - R2800 first flight!

no sir they did not come off the connie

[Race 29]

Re: Argonaut - R2800 first flight!

I think we all know that racing engines and stock engines are two different beast's. I really don't think you can blame a shop for a failure of a race engine. They are taxed hard! a couple years ago, there was multiple failures of race merlins, but you still can't blame the shop. If I remember right, it was due to some bad bearings from a supplier. You can't blame the shop for race failures! Like Mike said, these parts are old. You can only push them so far. In stock (designed limits) they will last a lot longer. A CV-240 has been flying over my house for better than a week, at least 5-6 times a day, with her R-2800's running beautifully. The Sanders will get Argo to run good. They just got that odd engine right now.

Race 29

[Pyrodude]

Re: Argonaut - R2800 first flight!

.......A CV-240 has been flying over my house for better than a week, at least 5-6 times a day, with her R-2800's running beautifully. .....Race 29

So THATS what plane it is! I could hear the radials purr but couldnt figure out the plane from the silhouette. Thanks Race 29!

PS - Sorry for the thread hijack but this has been killin me!

[Race 29]

Re: Argonaut - R2800 first flight!

No problem Pyro!!

Also, Argo seems to have the problems worked out. I saw her flying around Ione today. Sounded nice!!

Race 29