RareBear back to a 3 blade prop?

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: RareBear back to a 3 blade prop?

<--snip-->and as an added bonus, it creates almost pollution-free power.

Oh boy... could we start a debate here! (and I guess we have )

**sigh** <begin the revelation of my slight (very) treehugger "bent">Pretty non-polluting, as it runs.. but, Bill... saying that, you completely ignore the by-product, waste, from the process... which we've yet to come up with a plan that ensures that we don't poison the only place in the universe we have to live in with while storing it for the eons it will take before it is "safe"...

Truly, I believe the sun is the key to our energy needs.. but crikey man, NOT by reproducing the way it creates its energy HERE... but by harnessing it..

Some folks... err.. "treehuggers", don't even like dams.. I guess they kill fish??... I'm all for dams.. let's use that water that the SUN moves UP, as it moves ever naturally DOWN...

As for wind, sure, currently, it is only successful when subsidized, but have you looked at the "why" of this equation??? Geez, just read back a few messages.. wind kills birds of prey?? Cars kill birds.. my beloved Silverado did one in a few years back (see picture somewhere on this site)... I doubt, very seriously, that an extremely large wind power forest would have an ice cube's chance in hell of causing serious extension problems with any species.. Animals are not completely dumb... I think either the birds or evolution will figure out, STAY AWAY FROM HIGHWAYS... and... OH YEA.. THOSE BIG SWINGING THINGS!

Can we all agree to say BIG OIL??

Save the dinosaur juice for burning in engines and making cool plastic chit, "plastic bags, ladders, 5 gallon buckets, automobiles" and whatever else it seems to be the best way to make... and let's harness the benign energy we're blessed with from our sun... while it lasts...
</end tree hugger bent>

Yes I have my nomex keyboard in place...

[W J Pearce]

Re: RareBear back to a 3 blade prop?

Pretty non-polluting, as it runs.. but, Bill... saying that, you completely ignore the by-product, waste, from the process... which we've yet to come up with a plan that ensures that we don't poison the only place in the universe we have to live in with while storing it for the eons it will take before it is "safe"...

No Nomex needed. And really, we should get back to air racing. But....

We have come up with a plan to store the waste the problem is that a very loud group of individuals did not like the plan. They seem to be the same loud group of individuals that froze out nuke development 30 years ago.

I'm sure you are aware that the current "for-lack-of-better-plan" plan is to store all the spent fuel onsite. This is not really a great plan. A better plan was to create a facility that would be a long term storage for all the spent fuel. A place big enough so that capacity would not be a problem and a place remote enough that security/worst-case-scenario would not be a problem. (let's not focus on the specifics of Yucca Mountain but rather, the concept of it)

While some people freaked at this concept, others freaked at the idea of transporting the spent fuel. Now concern is understandable. But irrational fear is not. Sadly the loud ones were able to whip the masses into such a frenzy that anyone supporting the plan was committing political suicide.

I think the NRC and DOE (probably many more abbreviations too) decided to test a "bad day" scenario. They put a spent fuel transportation cask on a flatbed truck, on train tracks and then hit it with a freight train going 60 mph. The cask survived this violent impact. So they decided to torch the cask. I can't remember the specifics but something like they had it in the middle of a fuel-fed fire for a few hours. Again no issues.

But everyone had visions of their town at the base of a mushroom cloud and said, NIMBY. Keep in mind, there is a nuke plant in my back yard. I know a guy whose job it is to walk around the spent fuel casks with a Geiger counter. He has not mutated and his children look fine. By the way, the spent fuel is not like a bomb so the mushroom cloud thing is not really a worry.

Can't have nukes because they are scary.
Can't have hydro-electric because dams are bad.
Can't have natural gas because it is combustion.
Can't have coal because it is dirty.
Can't have wind because it is inefficient, ugly and the birds.
Can't have solar because it is inefficient and ugly.

Okay, so what do we do? Geothermal? I suppose we could bore some holes into the earth until we can make steam. But again, a loud group of citizens will be upset. Maybe they are different from the other loud groups or maybe they are the same. Regardless, the end result will be the same. People will think that lava will envelope their town instead of the mushroom cloud.

Sorry, but I'll stand by the nukes. Yes, when it goes bad it does go bad. But when you look at their history it has a very safe record (Don't buy into that 900,000 people were killed because of Chernobyl stuff. It was 31. But yes, Pripyat is a ghost town that never got to use their Ferris wheel).

I really do wish for some breakthroughs with solar. It is just difficult because Mr. Sun is so far away.

Now everyone is entitled to their opinion and I respect that we can disagree. I'm done with my comments, which were put here not out of anger or disgust, but to elaborate on my position above. Of course you are free to respond but I think this will be it for me.

I don't mean to take my ball and go home, after all, I started it. I just want to return to air racing. So if I do not respond to anything else it is not because I am mad, I just want to move on. But again, I'm not trying to cut you off.

To bring it back to air racing...... how is Critical Mass coming along? (snicker)

Cheers,

[kiwiracefan]

Re: RareBear back to a 3 blade prop?

Wayne, The Debate on nuclear vs wind vs geothermal vs tidal wave vs hydro is going on here in NZ, as lot of people know NZ is nuclear free since the mid 1980's.
Wind is being promoted heavily here with new wind farms constantly being proposed. One other generation option that is currently in the media here is Tidal Generation, there is a tidal farm currently being proposed for a harbour in the north island and many are oposing it.
Me personally, im for nuclear generation, but the risks have to be managed, and with the latest incident in Japan, many are now wary of nuclear.
On an oil, Brazilian company Petrobas is currently 2 weeks into a 5 year permit to explore a basin off the north islands east coast and it is encountering protests from greenpeace and local groups in the wake of the Gulf of Mexico disaster. Again, these narrow minded people are not waiting for the investigations etc to finish before becoming 100% opposed to the projects.
Me, if it brings money into our tiny economy then im for it but again risks have to be managed properly

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: RareBear back to a 3 blade prop?

God, it's Friday, Pizza night and my head is BUZZING too much from 4 SNPA TORPEDO's!! (excellent, by the way) and a microwave Red Baron single to really get into this tonight..

But Bill... this has been what has bothered me since the 70's... when nukes were first going in...

What about ground water contamination?

Can you tell me, ensure me, that there is NO risk of farking up the world's supply of water by playing with the "genie"...

I don't think you, or anyone else can..

Bill, you know I truly love you as a brother (though I'm grateful I did not get the virtual hair gene) <DUCKING> and you will always be a cherished friend, so I sincerely hope you accept my comments in that light... but..

Why NOT go for it... meaning wind, tidal flow, wave energy... all the totally FREE energy created by the sun and the moon's effects on our planet??

The subsidized argument regarding wind is questionable, IF, you look at, for instance, hydro energy.. much of which was/is created due to HUGE public works projects that were, at least, in part, funded by the Federal Govt folks....

There is so much "free" energy which has surrounded us for centuries, largely, unexploited, to ignore these sources and stick ourselves with an energy source, which we CLEARLY (JAPAN IS A VERY GOOD EXAMPLE) do NOT NOT NOT have control over is just folly!

While I TOTALLY agree that in the SHORT TERM, (this "short term" may be 100's of years!!) that we have gotten ourselves into a position that we have to use nukes to get us through until we can become universally energy efficient is necessary, but to ignore the very much unexploited energy that exists, simply because of gravity, the sun and the energy of the rotation of our planet and the forces that exist on it is... well... primitive.

Lie next to the pod my friend...



BTW... this thread started with a very distinct bent... so I'm gonna let it go, maybe move it, if asked...

[Ken from PG]

Re: RareBear back to a 3 blade prop?

And plastic bags, ladders, 5 gallon buckets, automobiles...

Don't forget the dangers of pacifiers......On the other note...what about magnetic power?

[Tibia]

Re: RareBear back to a 3 blade prop?

There is a customer whom I visit regularly that requires travel through the wind machine farms just North of Palm Springs. Have yet to see signs of any avian victims.



For one week a year, we Air Race fans could do our part during the impending energy crunch. I say we place a generator at the center point of the course and tie a string to Strega's tail feathers. Kinda like U-Control...

Bob

[BKB]

Re: RareBear back to a 3 blade prop?

Interesting thread going here.Sometimes its not about air racing.
Some good point brought up by all.I hope things stay civil in this debate.
Not sure either way about Nuke power,France has been doing it for years and had no problems.It does have a rather unsavory byproduct.Then again so does burning fossil fuels. Solar is good but take massive areas covered with panels.
Spain is experimenting with a mirror farm.The mirrors are focused on what I understand to be an element that is super-heated creating steam.The steam in turn turns a generator producing green power.
The standard bladed wind turbines do create a bird hazard.Some say natural selection.Not sure about that point.
Dyson,the guy who developed that funky vacuum has also developed and marketed a bladless fan.It's prettycool.
Don't see why he couldn't just reverse the process and hook it up to a generator and viola super-green bird endangering free power.
We as a planet need to do something besides sitting back and waiting for the oil supplies to run out.Don't know what the exact awnser is.If I did
I'd be playing the lottery tonight forsure!
Besides if we run out of fossil fuels no more internal combustion engines.I could care less about my car! I just there to be enough high octane aviation fuels so I can go watch the airraces for a while longer!

[W J Pearce]

Re: RareBear back to a 3 blade prop?

Hey Wayne,

You and I have tossed enough disclaimers back and forth that I know we will keep it civil. I know you do not spend the air race off season as First Mate on the Sea Shepherd. And I know, you know, that I don't spend the air race off season as a nuke engineer for Halliburton.

We are just two guys talking....

In my previous post I said I'm for the concept of Yucca Mountain. I really have not looked into Yucca Mountain specifically. But my guess is that the site was chosen due to its remoteness and arid climate. If spent fuel were to leak, if liquid was present, if the facility liner failed, then the liquid will still have to go through arid rock in order to get to the groundwater.

Some worry about fault lines but even if there were an earthquake, it would not split the earth open and allow the fuel containment casks to rupture and be swallowed up.

I love me country but I'm no fan of government. While I do prefer one side over the other, I feel almost all involved are just there for the paycheck and power. So they only make decisions based on popularity, and giving money out for nothing seems very popular.

I have little faith in government but they seem to have many good workers in non-political positions where is counts.

So yes, I will guarantee you that if a Yucca Mountain style facility were to leak, it would not contaminate the world's groundwater. While some aquifers are huge, they are not all interconnected. So a leak in NV would not make its way to Japan (irony) via groundwater. It would be bad, don't get me wrong. But it would not be universal.

I do want to make it clear that while I am pro-nuke, I am also pro-everything else, just on different levels. I am the least enthusiastic about wind because it seems to have the least potential. I guess I should say I'm not enthusiastic about coal or natural gas either, because I see it as dated technology and we have better alternatives.

I love hydro-electric and geothermal, interested in tide-action, and very, very hopeful in solar.

Now, I have never seen piles of bird carcasses at the bottom of a wind turbine. But I know there are people pissed that it happens. There is also a solar farm in CA (around Barstow I think?), that has the mirrors focusing on a tower to turn it into power. I believe others are being built.

My biggest problem is with spineless "leaders" and loud groups. No matter what it is, it will piss off some group. They will be very loud in airing their opinion and use completely inaccurate info to prove their point. They do not have a discussion like you and me, they yell. So the Esteemed Senator Doublechin from CA gets inundated with angry calls/emails, people protest outside his office and all this unpopularity is on the news. How long before Sen. Doublechin changes his mind? After all, he is concerned with getting re-elected and not much else.

And as I mentioned in my first post, the loud groups just push their agenda. They do not consider any of the pros of what they are trying to stop, just the cons. They point to Fukushima, Chernobyl and Three-Mile Island as if that were the norm.

You are correct that the world makes huge amounts of power. The issue is that the power is spread out over huge amounts land. It makes it difficult to harness it but I think they should keep trying.

Any while they try, while alternative and renewable or inexhaustible sources become more of a reality, why kill nuke? When we have something better, we can kill it. It just seems to be the best option right now. I think we have a level of agreement here. But since the US has not built a nuke plant since the Three-Mile Island incident in 1979, I guess its already been killed, we just need the body to cool down.

In short, I don't like coal because there are better alternatives. I like nuke and hydro-electric because they work well and I don't see a viable alternative at present. I support continued advancement and to a certain extent, subsidization of any practical alternative. Once something better is viable, I will look at nukes as I do coal.

Hope that makes sense.

[Bob]

Re: RareBear back to a 3 blade prop?

Its funny how threads can go off into many unexpected directions. I am not complaining because I think its great to have the open dialog, however it may happen I love it. Thank you for that.
Carry on chaps

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: RareBear back to a 3 blade prop?

Its funny how threads can go off into many unexpected directions. I am not complaining because I think its great to have the open dialog, however it may happen I love it. Thank you for that.
Carry on chaps

LOL... yea.. this thread is really not from the first message within it, as it was about a wind generator blade...

Thread drift is what it is... sometimes it can be annoying but in this case.... seems fun, it's been slow in the forum for a while anyway soo... what-ta-heck

[sierra fox]

Re: RareBear back to a 3 blade prop?

It probably will. And that is funny seeing how everything stopped in 1979.

I live next to a nuke plant (explains a lot I guess). Its license is up for renewal and "Mothers for Peace" and others want to stop the renewal. It seems they forget it is the largest employer in the county, it is the largest property tax generator in the county, and as an added bonus, it creates almost pollution-free power.

Seeing how nuke power has resulted in 3 deaths (Idaho Falls) in the US since the beginning of time, it must be dangerous. Not as dangerous as pillows and ice cream cones, but still, very dangerous.

Oh, uh... Go Bear.

speaking of things that stopped in 1979

[Propellerhead]

Re: RareBear back to a 3 blade prop?

Aw geez Anthony why do you have to be such a buzzkill?

[Leo]

Re: RareBear back to a 3 blade prop?

I'll stay out of the debate. I've spent my life with the ups and downs of land development and have little patience or respect for radical environmentalists! Facts mean little sometimes when emotions are involved...
I saw those blades last Thursday around Applegate Bob so it must have been close to the same time. Snow in Colfax?
I've spent several Thursday and Friday evenings/nights in Colfax waiting for the %$#&* pass to open back up so I can get home this winter!

[Propellerhead]

Re: RareBear back to a 3 blade prop?

There will always have to be a mix of different technologies.

The last time I checked, the sun doesn't shine at night and the wind doesn't always blow. Wind and solar power are not stored.

Hydropower is a great carbon neutral source, but the enviro-mentalists don't like the impact to nature.

As we mentioned before windmills have a habit of cuisinarting raptors.

Then what do you do?

[Leo]

Re: RareBear back to a 3 blade prop?

On still, dark nights we can use whale oil lamps...