Ready To Rumble? Who's Gonna Do What At Reno 2003?!

[T. Adams]

Mike Brown's secret weapon??

I don't know, but Mike Brown seen here taking off for Saturday's demo race at Oshkosh, has two strange looking things hanging off the wings. Could they be....????

[T. Adams]

Here's the pic.

NOS???

[W J Pearce]

No, Mr. Brown is going for the seaplane record that has been held by the Macchi MC.72 @ 440 mph for 69 years. He picked up the smalest EDO floats ever made in the "Flymarket" at OSH. Mike's advisors are suggesting he recalculate the prop clearance however.

BP

P.S., my prediction is that the biggest winner of all will be the fans. We're in for a great Reno. And.... well.... Rear Bear, with Skip qualifying at 500+.

[Red]

Originally posted by paintboy
Mike has stepped up with three racers one of which is the FASTEST Sea Fury on the planet, September Fury.

I, for one can't wait to see Mike flog the red beast! I think a few people will be surprised come Sunday. I really admire what he's done. I love the fact that he's pouring TONS of money into a "let it all hang out racer" with little (read no) promise of financial gain let alone break even. This is what racing is all about. He is a true racer obviously.

I also would love to see CM finally run up to potential. I'm sure there's still some left on the throttle if they can finally dodge the gremlins and get all their ducks in a row.

It's gonna be a roundie show fer sher.

Red

[claylemon]

Originally posted by Red
It's gonna be a roundie show fer sher

Go Rare Bear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by paintboy
I have all the respect for the Critical Mass team but that racer on the Reno course will not turn laps in the 470's or 480's. On a straight course the aircraft is probably very fast but the best lap ever turned by the racer is 452 MPH

Nice try-

Critical Mass turned 472+ for the first 3 or 4 laps of the 1999 gold race- right before the motor blew up- same race when she went around Dreadnaught like it was chained to a stump. Lots of people who have been clocking laps at Reno for decades got the same speeds. The airplane has the potential, it has just never been shown for any length of time, or for that matter recently.

[The Phantom Samurai]

Sorry, not buying it...

After reading your claims of the Critical Mass speeds from the Reno '99 Gold final, I dusted off my video of that race shot from pylon 8. After carefully studying the performance of CM in relation to Dreadnought, I have come to the following conclusions:

1) The pace lap had Dreadnought slightly in the lead at the start of the official first lap.

2) At the end of the first lap, the two racers are neck-and-neck heading for home pylon.

3) The end of the second lap has CM in the lead by approx. 1 second.

4) The end of the third lap has CM leading by her largest margin of approx. 3 seconds.

5) The end of the fourth lap has Dreadnought a mere 1/2 second behind as CM begins to show signs of engine trouble.

6) Tom declares a Mayday and pulls out during the fifth lap w/ engine trouble.

So, if the largest lead CM had on Dreadnought at any time was a mere 3 seconds, how could Tom have been clocking lap speeds in the 470's? Let's face it, year in and year out, Dreadnought is a 450 MPH racer, so being that we know that's the case, I'd grant you maybe 460 for Critical Mass on her best lap, but I seriously doubt 470+.

TPS

[claylemon]

Re: Sorry, not buying it...

Originally posted by The Phantom Samurai
After carefully studying the performance of CM in relation to Dreadnought, I have come to the following conclusions:

Hey Phantom, they run these races for a reason. If we could solve the "who's fastest?" in this forum, people would not have to risk their lives to give us the SPEED we all want to see. You can study all you want, but who is to say that one of these "roundies" isn't playing possum?


Clay

[AAFO_WSagar]

Originally posted by W J Pearce
No, Mr. Brown is going for the seaplane record that has been held by the Macchi MC.72 @ 440 mph for 69 years. He picked up the smalest EDO floats ever made in the "Flymarket" at OSH. Mike's advisors are suggesting he recalculate the prop clearance however.

Shhhhhhh!!! Bill.. next thing, you're gonna let the cat out of the bag and tell em about the lake that they're building out in the infield!

Man.. some people just can't keep a secret for carp..

Wayne

[paintboy]

TV Coverage or Video of Reno 2003

Leo,

Funny you should mention the TV thing at the end of your post. I am not saying anything, but a little birdy whispered some interesting words the other day. Keep your fingers crossed.

Dave

[The Phantom Samurai]

Clay... Huh??

Originally posted by claylemon
Hey Phantom, they run these races for a reason. If we could solve the "who's fastest?" in this forum, people would not have to risk their lives to give us the SPEED we all want to see. You can study all you want, but who is to say that one of these "roundies" isn't playing possum?

Again, huh? My previous post regarding CM vs. Dreadnought was in no way, shape, or form conjecture or speculation. It was a direct comparison of the two racers from the Reno '99 Gold final. So I guess I don't understand your point. Yes, it WILL all be settled on the racecourse in another month. And yes, I DO have utmost respect and admiration for the pilots in all racing classes who are skilled and daring enough to provide the thrill we all crave. 'Nuff said...

But just because I KNOW you're dying to hear it, I'll throw in my $0.02 for the Gold final... Dago does the quint-peat, hands down.

TPS

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Sorry, not buying it...

Originally posted by The Phantom Samurai
Let's face it, year in and year out, Dreadnought is a 450 MPH racer, so being that we know that's the case, I'd grant you maybe 460 for Critical Mass on her best lap, but I seriously doubt 470+

TPS.. Can't remember the "formula" that, I believe it was Tiger or Kerch who told me... had to do with the amount of additional MPH that it took to pass someone on the outside at Reno.. It was a pretty formidable amount tho...

Not sure on the clocking, I don't video tape and rarely have time to put a clock on anyone. About the only time I actually got to *watch* a race over the last few years, other than through a vewfinder, was 2000 when I was on top of the Miss America trailer working on the other side of the camera.. I did not have the opportunity to put a clock on CM (or anyone) but I do remember that once Tom got clear of traffic in the back of the pack, he appeared to be moving up on Skip and Matt at a fairly rapid clip.. at least until his ADI problems got too bad and he had to back off...

Anyway... good subject for debate, I for one, can't wait to see these two actually on the course...

Quite a few mods on both airplanes, one with short wings.. will that really be an issue on the shorter course??

Heard a bunch of theory on this subject, never really had a chance to actually see the difference...

Gonna be fun!

Wayne

[The Phantom Samurai]

The magic formula...

Yeah, Wayne, I've heard that same formula. For a Mustang, I've heard it usually equates to needing an additional 5-10 inches MP in order to pass a racer of similar aerodynamics (ie., Dago vs. Strega). I was basing my observations on the amount of time it took CM to pass Dreadnought, as well as how far ahead Tom was able to get in the 3+ healthy laps he ran. Based on this criteria and the fact that the two racers began the race side-by-side, I'd say CM might have had 10 MPH on the Buick, but certainly not 20+.

Now, let me also say that I HOPE Tom and CM prove me DEAD WRONG this year and really burn up the course. Last year was an enormous disappointment for all of us. They're super folks and I wish them nothing but the best.

TPS

[FlyinLo]

Re: Sorry, not buying it...

Originally posted by The Phantom Samurai

3) The end of the second lap has CM in the lead by approx. 1 second.

4) The end of the third lap has CM leading by her largest margin of approx. 3 seconds.

To figure the speed, the issue isn't the biggest lead, but the lap to lap delta. Dusting off the old algebra we have a bunch of knowns: the delta in lap times - 2 seconds ("approx." 3 minus 1), the length of the course in 1999 - 9.125 miles, and Dreadnought's speed, which is of course fixed at 450 MPH .

To figure a lap time from a speed, the equation is:
lap time in seconds = distance in miles * 3600 / speed in MPH
which gives us:
time = 9.125 * 3600 / 450

This gives us 73 seconds for Dreadnought's 450MPH lap.

If Critical Mass gained about 2 seconds on Dreadnought in a lap, he was running at "approx." a 71 second lap.

Solving for speed, we use:
speed in MPH = distance in miles * 3600 / lap time in seconds
which gives us:
speed = 9.125 * 3600 / 71

This gives us about 462.7 MPH for Critical Mass on that lap where Tom increased his lead by 2 seconds.

Is is all of course dependent on our constants being accurate, that "approx. 2 seconds" (I'd love to get a more precise time) as well as our Dreadnought at 450 "constant". Brian Sanders flew the gold final that year at 441.221MPH and qualified at 445.321MPH.

Depending on how accurately the tape plays back, we could try to just get a lap time on Critical Mass and figure out the speed.

I'd love to see Critical Mass go faster, I've heard talk around their pits of practice laps run at 480, but who knows if that was reality or a psych out technique...

OK, so I'm not just a race pilot, I'm a geek too.

Your mileage may vary...

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Re: Sorry, not buying it...

Originally posted by FlyinLo
and Dreadnought's speed, which is of course fixed at 450 MPH

Yep... the only racer in the history of motorsport with cruise control.....

Wayne