F-16 over-runs runway at Osh...no injuries

[AirDOGGe]

Re: F-16 over-runs runway at Osh...no injuries

I see what you mean. Thanks Randy.

This is a good one, and even describes where the "Falcon" name came from: http://www.f-16.net/articles_article10.html

[Randy Haskin]

Re: F-16 over-runs runway at Osh...no injuries

Why do F-16 pilots prefer Viper over the original official name? Is there a story behind it?

There's actually a lot of detail about this on the internet, as it's a pretty popular question.

The short story is this:

- Viper was General Dynamics' original proposed name for the airplane (remember that it competed with the Northrop YF-17 'Cobra' -- note the snake names) for a lot of different reasons (plenty to read on the 'net for this).

- Viper sounds better than "Fighting Falcon"...so that's what pilots and maintainers call it. In the same way that A-10s are "Hogs", B-1s are "Bones", F-105s were "Thuds", P-47s were "Jugs", etc.

[AirDOGGe]

Re: F-16 over-runs runway at Osh...no injuries

IF ONLY they were closer to shallow water as mentioned. IF ONLY there were a skilled swimmer nearby to pry the door open. IF ONLY they had thought of opening it ahead of landing (if possible with that make). So many if-onlys resulting in a tragic loss.




Originally Posted by AirDOGGe: Do Falcons have drag chutes?

Randy Haskin: "US Vipers do not have drag chutes."



Heh-heh. Apologies, Randy. I'm still old and antique enough to think of "Fighting Falcons" rather than the more-acceptable Vicious "Vipers".


I've always been curious though. Why do F-16 pilots prefer Viper over the original official name? Is there a story behind it?


.

[Coyote Chris]

Re: F-16 over-runs runway at Osh...no injuries

It was a yellow Piper Cub from Deleware with a man and a woman in it. It went in, floated upright for a bit, and sank as boats headed for it. It happened Tues July 26th

http://tinyurl.com/3c6r8uv

Update: Authorities identify crash victims
Authorities have released the names of two individuals killed Monday when their plane plunged into Lake Winnebago.

Michelle Palermo, 36, of Kimberly, and Steven A. Staples, 47, of Makanda, Ill., were pronounced dead at the scene of the crash, according to the Fond du Lac County Sheriff’s Department.

Staples was piloting the plane, a Piper Cub registered to Tri Star Aviation Services Inc. based in Wilmington, Del., when he crashed at 11:49 a.m. Monday about one half mile off the west shore near Wendt’s On the Lake, on the Winnebago County and Fond du Lac County line, authorities said.

Palermo was a passenger in the plane.

The Northwestern will update this story.

Original story: Two killed when plane makes emergency landing on Lake Winnebago
Two people died Monday when a small plane traveling from the Experimental Aircraft Association’s AirVenture in Oshkosh plunged into Lake Winnebago.

Boaters could see the face of the female passenger inside the submerged vessel but were powerless to help until dive team members arrived.

The Piper Cub registered to Tri Star Aviation Services Inc., based in Wilmington, Del., crashed at 11:49 a.m. Monday about ½-mile off the west shore near Wendt’s On the Lake, on the Winnebago County and Fond du Lac County line.

Robert Abraham, 90, of town of Friendship, was enjoying the view of the water from inside his home when he saw the plane crash.

He said the plane was headed south when it hit the water and spun 180 degrees and ended up facing north.

"I saw it hit the water and spin around, until it faced the other way,” Abraham said. “It was floating then.”

He said the plane started to sink as a small fishing boat headed towards the downed plane.

“I was watching it with a scope while I was on the porch. (Boaters) tried to get a rope
down to the plane,” he added.

Abraham said he was hoping to see the pilot poke his head out of the window.

“There was no activity at all,” he said.

Abraham called Scott Klein, owner of Wendt’s Marine, who boarded a pontoon boat and met two fishermen at the crash scene.

Scott Klein said at first he did not think much of the sound of a plane since EAA’s AirVenture is underway and plane traffic in the area is significantly higher.

“I just remember hearing a putt-putt-putt-putt, which is a common sound, especially this time of year,” Klein said.

Klein reached the crash scene to find the plane submerged in 6½-feet of water. A rescue team arrived a short time later.

“I could see there was a little piece of landing gear, and more debris,” Klein said. “The rescuers were trying to figure out where the door was.”

While Klein waited, ready to offer any assistance he could with the rescue effort, he saw the passengers were trapped inside the plane.

“It’s too bad,” Klein said. “If this had happened 100 yards east, it would have been in 3½-feet of water.”

Donna Klein said her son traveled back to shore and gave two deputies a ride to the plane. One of the deputies dove into the water.

She said Scott was too emotional for additional interviews, later breaking down herself while recalling her 29-year-old’s efforts in the rescue.

“He knew he couldn’t help her (the woman in the plane) anymore so he went to get the sheriff,” Donna said. “… If he could have gotten to her, I am sure he would have jumped in himself.”

Dive team members pulled two people from the Piper Cub within an hour of the crash, but both were pronounced dead at the scene, said Fond du Lac County Sheriff Mick Fink.

“There is always that golden hour to save someone,” Fink said of drowning victims.

“I was pretty impressed with the response time being that we are not a full-time search and rescue outfit,” he added. “Deputies got here quick and were right out on the water. Our boats came over from Lakeside Park.”

Dive team members from the Fond du Lac and Winnebago county sheriff’s departments participated in the attempted rescue.

At 12:38 p.m., the woman was brought in, placed on a pier and emergency personnel began more than 20 minutes of CPR. Ten minutes later the man was brought in and placed near her.

A Flight for Life Helicopter landed in the back parking lot of Wendt’s On the Lake and crewmembers assisted in the rescue effort.

At 1:03 p.m., officials placed a white sheet over the man and soon after did the same to the woman.

Firefighters grasped the edges of the flat board and carefully carried the woman to a nearby ambulance.

The National Transportation Safety Board is investigating the crash with assistance from the Fond du Lac County Sheriff’s Department and Federal Aviation Administration, said Chief Deputy Mark Strand.

A barge was called to the scene to lift the aircraft out of the water. At 1:45 p.m. the tail of the plane emerged from the water.

A decontamination area was set up about 1 p.m. for dive team members who were exposed to the airplane’s fuel during the rescue attempt.

First responders from Van Dyne and North Fond du Lac also were at the scene, and a U.S. Navy helicopter also offered assistance.

[flyboycpa]

Re: F-16 over-runs runway at Osh...no injuries

One always sees interesting landings at OSH. This year, I saw a Bonanza class plane ordered to do a continuous turn from downwind to final. He overshot the final path, increased his bank to 60 degrees to try and get back, realized that this was unwise when you are low and slow, so he straightened out and landed on the base leg on grass or a taxiway. He hit a runway light or something but taxied away. When you sit in the grass at the world's busiest airport times four, you see lots of creative landings. Unfortunately, the folks that landed in the lake werent so lucky....so sad....

Chris, I might have missed it, but what happened (and when) to the folks that landed in the lake? Wasn't a yellow Sportsman, was it?

I only ask because a bunch of us were watching a beautiful solid yellow Sportsman 2+2 (Glastar) on amphibs try to take off from the seaplane base with his amphib wheels extended. He was very lucky he didn't flip over. After a water-run that lasted until he was on the horizon he finally got airborne (guessing a mile, maybe) when he circled back over the SPB his wheels were still extended out. Later, I looked back at my pics of him taxiing out, and there they were...extended.

[Randy Haskin]

Re: F-16 over-runs runway at Osh...no injuries

Do Falcons have drag chutes?

US Vipers do not have drag chutes. US fast jets instead use arresting hooks, and OSH does not have any arresting gear.

[Randy Haskin]

Re: F-16 over-runs runway at Osh...no injuries

Looks like he was showing off and it bit him. He carried that high alpha taxi too far down the runway. As soon as he goes to put the nose down you can hear him pull the power off. From the time the nose gear touched pavement, to when he runs off the end wasn't very far.

The aero braking is standard, and is actually a lot more effective at higher speeds than wheel braking. It is performed until the airplane reaches a certain airspeed, then the nose is lowered. He was most decidedly not 'showing off' by doing it.

Without knowing if there were any mechanical issues, my amateur eye sees that he simply landed hotter and longer than he should have.

[Coyote Chris]

Re: F-16 over-runs runway at Osh...no injuries

One always sees interesting landings at OSH. This year, I saw a Bonanza class plane ordered to do a continuous turn from downwind to final. He overshot the final path, increased his bank to 60 degrees to try and get back, realized that this was unwise when you are low and slow, so he straightened out and landed on the base leg on grass or a taxiway. He hit a runway light or something but taxied away. When you sit in the grass at the world's busiest airport times four, you see lots of creative landings. Unfortunately, the folks that landed in the lake werent so lucky....so sad....

[race9]

Re: F-16 over-runs runway at Osh...no injuries

No brake smoke is all I noticed....

What are the chances of two different jets both having brake failures on the same day?

[rampking]

Re: F-16 over-runs runway at Osh...no injuries

Do Falcons have drag chutes? Perhaps a chute-deployment or brake failure.

Or maybe he was distracted texting his buddies...

No brake smoke is all I noticed....

[AirDOGGe]

Re: F-16 over-runs runway at Osh...no injuries

Do Falcons have drag chutes? Perhaps a chute-deployment or brake failure.

Or maybe he was distracted texting his buddies...

[Race5]

Re: F-16 over-runs runway at Osh...no injuries

Looks like he was showing off and it bit him. He carried that high alpha taxi too far down the runway. As soon as he goes to put the nose down you can hear him pull the power off. From the time the nose gear touched pavement, to when he runs off the end wasn't very far.

[Leo]

Re: F-16 over-runs runway at Osh...no injuries

Ouch! THAT'S gonna leave a mark.

Glad he's OK, hope it was something broken that caused it so he isn't breaded and fried. That's an expensive oops with the engine surely fodded and all.

The Fury looks relatively unhurt also.

[GRNDP51]

Re: F-16 over-runs runway at Osh...no injuries

Very good the fury didn't end up as bad because that is a very rare plane to be flying I think. And that poor fury had a forced belly landing landing back in 2008 too.

[Stevo]

Re: F-16 over-runs runway at Osh...no injuries

A few hours later the FJ-4B Fury went off the end of the same runway... though the outcome of this one turned out MUCH better.

http://www.worldwarbirdnews.com/2011/07/29/f-16-and-fj-4b-fury-run-off-the-runway-at-oshkosh/