Aero Union contract terminated!

[MARK SHANE]

Some of you might have already heard about this but I thought I would post it anyway, apparently the USFS cancelled Aero Unions contract to fight fires with their P3 Orions, wonderful right in the middle of fire season too how the hell does that happen? However the P2s over at Neptune Inc and Minden Air are still available for the rest of this season according to our friends at the USFS, funny thing is though I have read at some other sights that the P2s will be considered to old next year, is it just me or does it look like the days of contract air fire fighting are coming to a end?

[supercub]

Re: Aero Union contract terminated!

I read about that the other day......but what I read was the state of Calif had cancelled the contract........I always thought Aero Union was federal contracts, like you mentioned. I wonder what air tankers will look like in 10 years from now.

[RCoulter]

Re: Aero Union contract terminated!

I read about that the other day......but what I read was the state of Calif had cancelled the contract........I always thought Aero Union was federal contracts, like you mentioned. I wonder what air tankers will look like in 10 years from now.

CA actually cancelled the contract for the VLAT (DC-10), the USFS terminated the AU contract.

Sad news for sure, just doesn't seem right about AU. Hopefully something will be worked out. I would really miss photographing those beautiful P-3's out at RTS and at fires. Not to mention how well they can lay retardant and knock fires down.

[supercub]

Re: Aero Union contract terminated!

I wonder if this has anything to do with the State not being broke $$$

[Coyote Chris]

Re: Aero Union contract terminated!

There was a grass fire of five acres one mile from my house in Spokane County yesterday. Instead of the super PBY which in the past has protected my home, the fire drops are now done with something that looks like a ag cat crop duster on floats.....I too will miss the old planes doing the fire drops....and wonder how money issues will effect those of us who rely on aerial fire fighting....

[Reever]

Re: Aero Union contract terminated!

A relatively modern aircraft that I thought might be destined for fire fighting duties is the retired S-3 Vikings.

[Race5]

Re: Aero Union contract terminated!

This happened earlier in the season as well. It got resolved, but this second instance is getting ugly. I think it will be worked out, but probably not for this season.

[MARK SHANE]

Re: Aero Union contract terminated!

It just seems like the list is getting smaller for a certain part of the aviation community that was already rare to begin with, no more Hawkins and Powers, TBM Inc still exist but does not fight fires now apparently, and now Aero Union has no contract, this is a big deal considering the fact that their whole fleet is heavy air tanker (P3s) which correct me if I am wrong they are the only company that operates P3s in this capacity, in my opinion this is another example of goverment being overzelous about safety, don't get me wrong a loss of a air tanker and its crew is horrible and I hate hearing about it when it happens, but so is hearing about a wildfire that has burned up to 50,000 acres and destroyed homes and businesses that could have been held at bay or contained with the use of air tankers!

[Race5]

Re: Aero Union contract terminated!

It just seems like the list is getting smaller for a certain part of the aviation community that was already rare to begin with, no more Hawkins and Powers, TBM Inc still exist but does not fight fires now apparently, and now Aero Union has no contract, this is a big deal considering the fact that their whole fleet is heavy air tanker (P3s) which correct me if I am wrong they are the only company that operates P3s in this capacity, in my opinion this is another example of goverment being overzelous about safety, don't get me wrong a loss of a air tanker and its crew is horrible and I hate hearing about it when it happens, but so is hearing about a wildfire that has burned up to 50,000 acres and destroyed homes and businesses that could have been held at bay or contained with the use of air tankers!

It's not about safety. It's an on going pissing match trying to see whose %$# is the biggest. They need to get them back online since there is no capability anywhere else to do what they do. If the US Forest deal never comes back, I can see some states putting them on contract.

[MARK SHANE]

Re: Aero Union contract terminated!

It's not about safety. It's an on going pissing match trying to see whose %$# is the biggest. They need to get them back online since there is no capability anywhere else to do what they do. If the US Forest deal never comes back, I can see some states putting them on contract.

Oh yeah couldn't agree more Race 5, that was USFS explanation for pulling the contract, but we know better I know I read somewhere that USFS really wants their own fleet, like CAL FIRE does and there was somthing metioned about C130Js hmm lets connect the dots.

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Aero Union contract terminated!

I wonder if this has anything to do with the State not being broke $$$

NOT being broke? I thought Calif was in the red.

Probably is a cost issue. The Neptunes have half as many engines to feed and maintain. That would look good on paper to some government bureaucrat, even though the twin carries a smaller payload.

[MARK SHANE]

Re: Aero Union contract terminated!

NOT being broke? I thought Calif was in the red.

Probably is a cost issue. The Neptunes have half as many engines to feed and maintain. That would look good on paper to some government bureaucrat, even though the twin carries a smaller payload.

Yeah but thats the funny thing about it Airdogg, according to some of the other sights I have researched USFS is one of the agencies thats been pushing for these contract companies to start using turbo prop planes as opposed to piston powered ones, thats what AU has is turbo prop P3s, they also had four P2s in their fleet one was sold to a South America country the other three got scrapped under unfortunate circumstances because they were going to a all P3 fleet starting in the early 90s, they were ahead of the curve and yet they are shut down now how messed up is that!

[kiwiracefan]

Re: Aero Union contract terminated!

Some bean counter somewhere would have worked out that it is cheaper per hour to use 5 or 10 smaller airframes over more cycles than to use a bigger multi engine airframe that has a crew of 3 or 4 that carries the same payload as the 5 or 10 small airframes in one trip and it is better because you can fan the smaller airframes out and cover more land area than a single big ship in one pass... similar concept to Carriers vs Strategic Bombers.. yes a B-52/B-1/B-2 can carry more payload than half a dozen tactical airframes, but because there are more of them the tac birds can be 'customized' for the mission with load out and can better defend themselves in trouble etc etc, and a single ship loss is one person instead of 6

[Race5]

Re: Aero Union contract terminated!

The P2s are nearing their end of life. I talked to one of the Neptune crews while they were here and they expect to operate maybe 2-3 more years. The parts are getting scarce and the airframes are tired. They were hoping to replace them with some of the P-3s that are going to possibly be available as the Navy's new 737 based sub hunter comes on line.

[MARK SHANE]

Re: Aero Union contract terminated!

The P2s are nearing their end of life. I talked to one of the Neptune crews while they were here and they expect to operate maybe 2-3 more years. The parts are getting scarce and the airframes are tired. They were hoping to replace them with some of the P-3s that are going to possibly be available as the Navy's new 737 based sub hunter comes on line.

Well I look at that in a good and bad way, bad because the P2s are pretty cool and I will miss seeing them but your right Race 5 they are getting tired, the good though is hopefully some race teams can put those 3350s to some good use if they can be rebuilt?