The Future

[Bob]

Re: The Future

You can see them porpoising a lil bit as they go by also.

[Race5]

Re: The Future

You can see them porpoising a lil bit as they go by also.

Yup. That would be mach tuck.

[Fence Sence]

Re: The Future

Yup. That would be mach tuck.

It happened at PRS. I was over on 4 at the time but, I had a buddy over in the VOS when it happened. He called me immediately asked if I "saw that". I did not but he says "they" (I'm not sure who it was now) just about bought the farm. It was one of the Viper powered L29s. Personally I find that damn Vampire scary as hell. That thing will end up as a lawn dart. It always looks nice at PRS but, it is horrible in traffic. He is going to crash one of these days. I don't like being within a mile of the course when he is on it. I honestly would be fine if the Jets just went away. I love the speed but, it's just too easy to push them past their envelope. I am however, all for a turbo-prop class.

[Race5]

Re: The Future

That was "Screamin' Eagle" that did that at PRS. I've never noticed the Vampire being all that sketchy, but haven't really paid that much attention.

[Bob]

Re: The Future

The viper L-29's were doing it pretty good (bad?) going into 1 at prs, I really think RARA needs to look at their rule against swept wings or something. I was reading about mach tuck on wikipedia and I think its only going to get worse. I think the sport has evolved past a jet with a straight, or nearly straight wing. I dont want to see another death at the air races, seen way to many now.

[Race5]

Re: The Future

The viper L-29's were doing it pretty good (bad?) going into 1 at prs, I really think RARA needs to look at their rule against swept wings or something. I was reading about mach tuck on wikipedia and I think its only going to get worse. I think the sport has evolved past a jet with a straight, or nearly straight wing. I dont want to see another death at the air races, seen way to many now.

Allowing swept wing jets would not be a good idea at all. It would just increase the speeds. The jets need to eliminated. Period.

[KAHNZILLA]

Re: The Future

My 2 cents, I came to Reno for the first time in 1970 and the bug got me. I have maybe missed 7 times over the last 41 years and will be there this year. By the way the speeds I wrote about on another POST were ment for engine survivability.

The computer machining will make a Merlin Block and all the parts that go in it in the very near future. Some of the aircraft that have been "RESTORED" (really built from nothing) in the last 10 years have been amazing and there will be more coming. As long as there is a passion for piston engine airplanes they will be around.

The Air Races in Reno have recieved a new life with the economy bust. This should make it cheaper to buy up land to protect the course. A major tragedy is the only thing that will end it at Reno and God hope that never happens. 10 more days

[GregS]

Re: The Future

My 2 cents, I came to Reno for the first time in 1970 and the bug got me. I have maybe missed 7 times over the last 41 years and will be there this year. By the way the speeds I wrote about on another POST were ment for engine survivability.

The computer machining will make a Merlin Block and all the parts that go in it in the very near future. Some of the aircraft that have been "RESTORED" (really built from nothing) in the last 10 years have been amazing and there will be more coming. As long as there is a passion for piston engine airplanes they will be around.

The Air Races in Reno have recieved a new life with the economy bust. This should make it cheaper to buy up land to protect the course. A major tragedy is the only thing that will end it at Reno and God hope that never happens. 10 more days

ONe of my biggest joys is seeing...'n listening to all the older crew chiefs, & support crews you see just walking thru the pits. These folks have stories none of have heard about the magnificent aircraft we love.

I've seen alot of racing go away in my short 60 years...but It will be a sad season when we no longer have the unlimiteds. FYI 'n I forget the website...but I finally got a close look @ everything on a radial. Guess it's not just a bunch of Harleys bolted together.

GregS

[Fence Sence]

Re: The Future

That was "Screamin' Eagle" that did that at PRS. I've never noticed the Vampire being all that sketchy, but haven't really paid that much attention.

I do believe it was Sceamin' Eagle. Thank you.

Pylon 6 is were the Vampire CAN NOT hang. That thing is over the Deadline almost every lap through the VOS. That is absolutely the worst (most dangerous) Deadline to break. It ain't right and if he is going to deny it and keep racing it, I will damn it every year. Yes, its a neat aircraft. No, it doesn't need to race. It's pretty tough for me to call pilot error. That thing is just too consistently wide around 6. It's on a nice smooth, consistent arc and any qualified pilot should have that turn at least semi figured out by now. It just looks to me like the Vampire has nothing left to give if he is trying to fly a tight course. I don't know, maybe it is pilot error. Maybe he just refuses to take it out wider around 5 and into 6 in order to make it 'cause he does not want to loose the time and nobody is watching that particular Deadline very close? What I think it is though is that he is a slower aircraft, staying to the inside, just like he is supposed to but, when he gets to 6 and he is on that inside line, the Vampire can't make it into the VOS. The only error is the decision to race that thing. How long before he wipes himself, a passing, faster aircraft and pilot and a gaggle of fans out?

Were is the Deadline for 4,5 and 6? I believe the Deadline for the VOS is the fence right?

It goes against every fiber in my body to complain about a race plane and race pilot but...

[CarolinaChuck]

Re: The Future

aafo: so basically you need the "old" original parts to do well..

Kerch: They're the best.....Cylinder heads and liners are becoming a big problem. The money is only one part of it....I'll give you a good example, we were having problems with connecting rods for many years, our connecting rods were breaking. A guy from [a commercial supplier of high performance connecting rods] thought they could make replacements and told us to send them a sample. They did not realize that the Merlin has a "fork and blade" rod, they took one look at the sample and said "you guys are crazy we can't build this". The cost of making the rod was so astronomical in the quantities that we wanted, they didn't even want to consider it. That's one of the big problems. What I'd like to see is another class established.... 750 cu in class..... 777 cu in would be better. I talked of this at the NAG banquet last year. 550 cu in was the cubic displacement of the old Graves Trophy Race of the Cleveland era, I thought reviving that class would be good. Of course the "Thunder Mustang" has a 600+ cubic inch engine .....since that engine's available it would be a shame to eliminate that one. Then I read about another engine, a V-12 marine application that was 750, so I said make it 777 cu in. The casino's would like that <laughing> it has a certain hype to it... What I envision, I've been thinking about it for a long time, is a class wherein the current unlimited aircraft engines are just too big. I see a race that's not just 8 laps, It's 25 laps. A 25 lap race, the rules being the same as the unlimited rules except for the cubic displacement limit. No other regulation on it, it could be two cycle, four cycle, supercharged, fuel injected completely computer controlled.....it doesn't matter. That is the cubic displacement limit and you can use any type of airplane you want. If you can squeeze that into a "Nemesis" formula one then fine. And it can be a bi-plane or whatever.... Wouldn't even have to have wings! Whatever you want as long as it flies.

aafo: sort of a "LimitedUnlimited" class..you could see some real innovation with this formula!

Kerch: That's the whole thing! There are a couple reasons for the 25 laps: The 25 laps evens things out. In other words if you build an airplane, and we'll say it's got 750 cu in for purposes of discussion, we'll say you make 3000 hp out of this engine.....Well you gotta feed your 3000 hp for 25 laps, which means you have to carry a lot of fuel. So the size of the airplane now increases, remember before I said airplanes are all compromises. You might have a 500 cu in engine that makes 1000 hp and it's efficiency and the size of the airplane are such that it's just as just as capable or more capable of winning a 25 lap race. Another thing that having the 25 laps does, it delays these super high speeds up in the 500mph range. I think you'd see the first year out up in the 400's and it would take a while before the speeds climbed up into the critical mach number. And you have to say who is going to build these airplanes and why would they do that? The way I see this happening is: Three years from the date of announcement, an event would be held at Reno, I feel that Reno is the place to have it because of its history. 25 laps on the unlimited course flying with the rules I've just specified. First prize would be one million dollars, with a three million dollar total purse.

aafo: that kind of prize money would certainly provide incentive!

Kerch: I think you would see quite a number of people become involved in that. The only stipulation would be the class would be allowed to have an in flight camera mounted in the cockpit, and you would allow Internet access to your in-flight racing.

aafo: You've got our support here! [where do we sign up!?!] This would be amazing to see!



The above is a off the following link by WSugar in another post: http://www.aafo.com/racing/people/kerch.htm


I am going to preference this by saying the only two races I have been to was 1991 and 1993. Never seen jet, T-28, or sport class races. I come from an auto racing background with a pinch of aviation on top.

I like the idea above- debate it if you feel needs be. My only thought is only this: dance with the one that brought you; piston engine propeller driver aircraft.

Warbirds and Reno will die.....God may save the Queen, but these are the facts- and they are undeniable. However the "Coliseum" of modern day air racing will be bench marked by Reno, and Reno alone. All future advents and venues will be measured by her. Go! go enjoy it while you can.

We are a witness to the death throws of an era to the Warbirds of freedom: make no mistake their purpose- death and destruction in the hopes and belief of liberty; and a new way of life. Is it so hard to let go their moment in history to grasp their dying wishes? from their ashes to grow new life. Did you expect anything less?

Trust me, I wish I could go this year- just like last year. I truly would like my wife to see the "big show!" Maybe next year, good Lord willing and that damn creek don't rise again.

P.S. To hell with the Queen!- Go Unlimiliteds!

CC

[Fence Sence]

Re: The Future

Good post CC, good post.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: The Future

The above is a off the following link by WSugar in another post

Lol.... only BeerNazi gets to call me sugar.... It's been a long time since someone has spelled my name that way.... did you go to Sparks High???

[Race5]

Re: The Future

I do believe it was Sceamin' Eagle. Thank you.

Pylon 6 is were the Vampire CAN NOT hang. That thing is over the Deadline almost every lap through the VOS. That is absolutely the worst (most dangerous) Deadline to break. It ain't right and if he is going to deny it and keep racing it, I will damn it every year. Yes, its a neat aircraft. No, it doesn't need to race. It's pretty tough for me to call pilot error. That thing is just too consistently wide around 6. It's on a nice smooth, consistent arc and any qualified pilot should have that turn at least semi figured out by now. It just looks to me like the Vampire has nothing left to give if he is trying to fly a tight course. I don't know, maybe it is pilot error. Maybe he just refuses to take it out wider around 5 and into 6 in order to make it 'cause he does not want to loose the time and nobody is watching that particular Deadline very close? What I think it is though is that he is a slower aircraft, staying to the inside, just like he is supposed to but, when he gets to 6 and he is on that inside line, the Vampire can't make it into the VOS. The only error is the decision to race that thing. How long before he wipes himself, a passing, faster aircraft and pilot and a gaggle of fans out?

Were is the Deadline for 4,5 and 6? I believe the Deadline for the VOS is the fence right?

It goes against every fiber in my body to complain about a race plane and race pilot but...

The VOS deadline is the fence. I can't count how many times I have seen the jets go behind me on the fence and never get called for a cut. I'm not sure where the deadline for 6 is, but it may be a little further out than you think it is.

[GRNDP51]

Re: The Future

they should have piper cub races

[supercub]

Re: The Future

Piper Cub race ..........ya
Race 1 ..........here