Jets, air race or parade?

[jarrodeu]

Re: Jets, air race or parade?

Be careful saying that here.....

People are not afraid of facts are they?

Jarrod

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Jets, air race or parade?

Be careful saying that here.....

Brad, I've seen a couple of posts by you in this thread that are sort of ambiguous in their meaning.

Can you tell us exactly what you mean by the above post?

[ChrisMX105]

Re: Jets, air race or parade?

Jets are only slightly faster then the Unlimiteds.
Brian

I am sure there are those that could explain the aerodynamics but the 50-60 mph difference between the fastest unlimited and the fastest jets is beyond slight in the realm of air racing, The 480+ unlimiteds have gotten there through years of aerodynamic and engine modification and lots of experience. The jets have gotten there by stuffing an engine with almost double the thrust into a basically stock airframe. Kind of like putting a big block in a Honda Civic and expecting it to handle well.................

[Big_Jim]

Re: Jets, air race or parade?

Brad, I've seen a couple of posts by you in this thread that are sort of ambiguous in their meaning.

Can you tell us exactly what you mean by the above post?

Well...last month I brought up the subject that there was something more to the L-29 story than just the burn-thru on the exhaust stack, and said that the information would be coming out soon.

In response, I was told in no uncertain terms that I needed to 'get my facts straight' and that I needed to stop stating my 'opinion as fact'. Those are exact quotes.

FuryFan posted about the threads on the WIX board made a pretty broad statement about this being the end of the Viper-engined L-29's racing at Reno. All I was doing was passing on the same information that was given to me about not posting 'opinion as fact'. Nothing more, nothing less.

And as far as the other post on this thread about being ignorant...that is just a direct quote from another distinguished member of this board who informed me that I was "beyond ignorant". So just a tip to the hat to them for the observation and making fun of myself.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Jets, air race or parade?

I guess it all has to do with timing...

[spacegrrrl]

Re: Jets, air race or parade?

So I really never liked the L-39 racing and definitely hope it doesn't come back. I was excited when they opened up the jet class and really surprised the first time I saw a "Viper" on the course. I was also wondering if the L-29 was safe at those speeds.

Sounds like there are two issues, one with what seems like a clear fix, that is reengineering the engine swap and having the work done by someone not associated with the current "Viper" conversion shop. That seems pretty straight forward.

The second is a little trickier, "mach tuck" might be harder to reliably sort out. (maybe not even possible in any sort of reasonable way)

So the question is what becomes of the jet class, there are complaints of safety but the one big jet crash was an L-39 and the AT-6 class has been way more deadly and I don't see regular posts here about shutting those down. Air racing is dangerous, No getting around that and last year's incident with the Thunder Mustang nearly going into the pits shows any class (or air show act) could endanger large numbers of spectators. So it all comes down to what constitutes acceptable risks.

If our choices are:

1. Unlimited straight wing jets and removing aircraft from eligability if they look to have safety issues (where I think we are now).
2. Return to L-39 racing.
3. Pull the jet class and maybe find something else (Tasmania had some races with Aerostars, I'd vote for that).

I'd vote 1 or 3. Please not 2!

Spacegrrrl

[Big_Jim]

Re: Jets, air race or parade?

I guess it all has to do with timing...

Indeed.

And I believe you and I have a pending date to knock back a brew or two next week as well...which I fully intend on holding you to.

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Jets, air race or parade?

Why, yes.... we do!

[Sky Critter]

Re: Jets, air race or parade?

Its been mentioned several times already but I'll say it again.....

!TURBOPROPS!

We need to get there eventually. Might as well start sooner rather than later.

[Big_Jim]

Re: Jets, air race or parade?

Its been mentioned several times already but I'll say it again.....

!TURBOPROPS!

We need to get there eventually. Might as well start sooner rather than later.

Have fun watching them.

I won't be there.

[Sky Critter]

Re: Jets, air race or parade?

That's what a lot of folks said about the sport class when it first got going.

[capjessop]

Re: Jets, air race or parade?

!TURBOPROPS!

Yes.

There are several Turboprop trainers out there today including a pilatus, the T-6 II/Harvard II, and an embraer if I'm not mistaken. Those could be a launch pad into some great designs. They're cheapish, and the PT-6 is one of the most widespread and best made engines around today. Theres a million variants and I think someone with the right motivation could really design something great around one...or two of them.

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Jets, air race or parade?

...So the question is what becomes of the jet class, there are complaints of safety but the one big jet crash was an L-39 and the AT-6 class has been way more deadly and I don't see regular posts here about shutting those down...l

Well now...In defense of that class, the slower and easier to handle T-sixes have been racing FAR longer than the jet class, and most losses have occurred via mid-air collisions with other aircraft or ground objects, not by anything having to do with it's design, handling or velocities. That sole jet loss came about from hitting nothing but rough air, something commonly found on a pylon air-race course. The jet's higher speed and fast roll rate left the pilot with insufficient time to react and recover. A Texan flown by a competent pilot would have handled it just fine.

Figure the number of airframe losses versus the number of years each class has raced at Reno and I think the results may come out more even, if not just the opposite.

Anyone have the 'numbers' and want to do the math?

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Jets, air race or parade?

Personally, like most of us, I prefer the sound of a recip any day and I really don't like the smell of burning Aviation Kerosene.... Butttttt.....

I'd much rather see AND hear turboprop class than jets.. Remember, a lot of what you hear at RENO IS prop.

I've also met, at least one duster pilot who thought he might throw his hat in the ring if there was a turbo class.

One of the nice things about RENO, ya just never know what you'll see next.

[planecrazy2]

Re: Jets, air race or parade?

Krazy Karnack the fortune teller pulls a slip of paper from his hat, unfolds it and reads,

"There will be a turboprop class at Reno by 2018"


It must be true, I read it on the Interweb.....