Ghost photo w/out trimtab

[Florian]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

At the right side fuselage I detected some abnormal deformation (picture from second round on friday). Will send the picture out to the officials tomorrow, maybe it can help to find the root cause.

Florian

[Smee Again]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

At the right side fuselage I detected some abnormal deformation (picture from second round on friday). Will send the picture out to the officials tomorrow, maybe it can help to find the root cause.

Florian

I'm far from an expert, but that just looks like oil canning to me; pretty common with the combination of speed and g-forces. I believe the title of this thread tells the real story.

Still stunned and broken-hearted...

SA

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

I also wondered about the non visible helmet on both pictures...

A little investigating on my own part.

I never saw the photos posted in this thread before they were removed, but I found this one of the Ghost when it was inverted on the internet yesterday. I have no idea it it is one of the two or not.

I flipped the image over to make the plane look upright, zoomed in and played with the brightness and contrast to try to enhance any cockpit detail.


From what I can see, Jimmy's helmet is visible, and it looks like his head is up against the instrument panel. This makes me believe that he did black-out from the sudden high "G" pull-up, and the plane was pretty much flying on it's own from there. The open tail wheel is a good indicator of massive G-forces, it has been said here.

The photo can be seen via this link. For personal reasons I did not want to post it directly for scan-bots to spread all over the 'net, and because I am not sure of ownership of the original photo, of which I only display a small portion..

Image link:

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/8386/leewardinvertedcloseup1.jpg

While I whole-heartedly agree that if Jimmy had even SOME control of the plane then he most certainly would have steered away from spectators even if it meant losing his own life. However, the video looks to me like the plane came down at a near vertical angle and on a straight path, with no change or curvature of flight path one would normally see of a plane trying to pull up even a little bit. I no longer believe Jimmy was conscious and trying to maneuver the aircraft once it left the course.


At least this helps me feel a LITTLE, TINY bit better that Mr. Leeward didn't see any of the horror coming before we lost him to the angels.


Rest in peace, dear pilot...There was nothing you could do to prevent this....Bless you.


..

[doubleup]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

Air,

Good post. I also think a telling sign that there was no control of the plane is that it came in with no changes to the throttle. He came in at the same RPM he left the course with...screaming! There is a link on the RGJ site of a recording (not video) of the plane coming in and you can hear what I am talking about.

And right now that sound is what has been haunting me all night and all day today. I keep hearing it.

[austinstephens]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

I totally agree with AirDOGGe..

It looks and seems as though he blacked out from the excessive G load of the sudden pitch up, and was not in any control throughout this horror, and only the good lord above kept it out of the grandstands. A life is a life, but there were have been many, many more casualties if it had gone into the grandstands..I'll continue to pray for all the people and families involved..

I have been a fan of these races since the Sky Ranch days, and have attended many..This is the saddest time I can remember in all these years..

[wyhdah]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

I think the only difference in this and Buckwheats (Hannah's) situation is Bob continued to climb and run out of energy. For what ever reason, stick deflection from the Gs or other trimmed surfaces, Jimmy went inverted and instead of a continued climb you got this result. There are some good write ups on Hannah's episode that are enlightening to what happens when you loose a trim tab, I believe I saw a link on hear earlier but you can search Hannah and Voodoo to find it.

[RarebearFan77]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

I think the only difference in this and Buckwheats (Hannah's) situation is Bob continued to climb and run out of energy. For what ever reason, stick deflection from the Gs or other trimmed surfaces, Jimmy went inverted and instead of a continued climb you got this result. There are some good write ups on Hannah's episode that are enlightening to what happens when you loose a trim tab, I believe I saw a link on hear earlier but you can search Hannah and Voodoo to find it.

I think it was pretty much the same situation as buckwheat.. but buckwheat's mount (voodoo) had a full wing and jimmy's doesn't. The lack of wing area I believe allowed the ghost to bleed off speed. It's all so sad. Can't get the icky feeling out of my stomach..... God.bless all of the families involved and god speed Jimmy.... You and your ship will greatly be missed...

[wyhdah]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

I know what you mean John, I'll be riding along concentrating on driving and wonder "whats wrong with my stomach" then I'll remember why I have a hole that goes from my stomach to my chest.....what a loss.

[bearfan]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

If I remember right the voodoo incident occurred between 3-4 over by the mountains one of the only points on the course where wings are relatively level in flight. Coming around eight in the steep bank also probably threw off the planes want to climb straight up and not roll. Who knows....to sad to keep replaying in my head.
Still can't believe what happened!

[mgbf4u]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

I am a mechanic. I do aviation ground equipment. I am astonished that a little bitty trim tab would cause such a horrendous accident. I'm hearing it could.
Aircraft mechanics please chime in.

[doubleup]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

I witnessed the Voodoo incident and it was crazy how fast she shot up in the air. So if they tell us that was caused by a trim tab, I believe them and what I saw yesterday was very similar.

[spacegrrrl]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

I think this is going to turn out to be slightly different than Voodoo. Video showed massive elevator flutter and the trim tab departing. I think that must have caused some other damage that then caused the excessive pull up, possibly when Jimmy tried to pull up off the course.

But to answer the original question at that speed the trim tab can easily overpower the pilot.

Spacegrrrl

[hm66sk]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

What video? Under lock and key I presume. What a horrible, tragic loss.
Sad sad day for all.

[goldfinger]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

Yes, sadly similar to Voodoo/Buckwheat except the result. Still speechless almost, with that sick feeling too. Stunned to lose a friend, and that such a little thing like trim tab can do that so very fast. I never would have believed it except for seeing it twice now. On Voodoo, it popped all the rivets on the topside of the wing, jeez mustangs are tough.

[wolfee]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

At the West end of the pits were I was at. I know what I saw at first looked like turbulence from the plane in front, everything after that, the roll to the right, then to the left left and shooting strait up was the result of something breaking.

All video I have seen so far is from the stands, were you really dont see anything except the end result (witch I could have lived with out seeing). I would really like to see video starting at the entry of the turn. I think that would be more telling of what really happened.