Ghost photo w/out trimtab

[FENCELINER]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

Not sure if this has been posted here, but there's a video of landing gear test done on GG, not sure if done on Friday or not, but after taxing out, Jimmy returns and seemingly directs a crew member to look at the left horizontal stabilizer.

Look at about 4:20.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58cxP...yer_detailpage

This was from 2010

[AirDOGGe]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

Everyone has there own view/ opinion of what happened. All I know is that there was no change in throttle from the time he left the course. Much like many other people I thought he was headed right for our group in the box seats as well and am very lucky to have walked away with a few cuts and nothing else.

Naturally, where you were when it happened will determine what you heard. The sound heard from the reserved stands as iit approached the box seats will sound different than what was heard way down by the general admission bleachers.

From the audio I've heard RECORDED from the reserves, I could heard the sound of the propeller speed increase in the last second or two as it quickly grew closer. Some of that will be doppler effect and some from the prop accelerating as it unloads and the aircraft accelerates during the final downward flight path. It was quite a sound I won't soon forget.

[shorebird]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

I witnessed several high frequency oscillations that drew my attention immediately to the tail of the aircraft as it passed by, just prior to the pull up. The departed tab may be the cause or the result of the problems at the tail. I also recall that engine power seemed to remain unchanged throughout.

[smilinjack]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

xxxxx

[RBriscoe]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

I also wondered about the non visible helmet on both pictures.

What a tragedy!

There is one photo from directly over the top of the aircraft which, if enlarged enough, (subject to the limitations of the jpeg image) appears to show a light area where the helmet would be if the aircrew were slumped over.

That would be consistent with the image from the side view with no helmet visible.

The Voodoo Chile incident is referenced on the Galloping Ghost Wiki. I suspect that the NTSB will be revisiting that incident to gain more information about the trim state, CG position and so on as it relates to the pull up (reportedly 10 G in the Voodoo Chile incident).

We will have to wait and see what the NTSB Investigation turns up.

[sandramore]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

Okay, I need help. Last night.. night before... heck, I can't remember...someone posted information regarding the P-51's having trim tab problems that were documented when they were first manufactured. Or something to that effect.

To save me, I can't find that post. I told someone about it, and he'd like the info and the website it came from. I apologize for being vague, but I feel like I have to be careful due to the ongoing investigation.

So, if someone can point me in the right direction, or PM that website, I'd really appreciate it.

[wolfee]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

I believe it was Wiki... I remember the post too

[sandramore]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

I got what I needed and have forwarded it on. Thanks, everyone.

[AiRick]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

A Very Bad Day:

[wyhdah]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

Right over the top huh? Glad you are Ok. The steam coming off of the boil off system in photo 11 looks like that air might be stalled there, most of the pictures of that system at speed show the stream moving with the slipstream but that one.....

[IcePaq]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

Some of the spectators seemed to have some unbelievably quick reflexes and presence of mind.

[Bill@Interstell]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

Not sure if this has been posted here, but there's a video of landing gear test done on GG, not sure if done on Friday or not, but after taxing out, Jimmy returns and seemingly directs a crew member to look at the left horizontal stabilizer.

Look at about 4:20.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58cxP...yer_detailpage

This test was filmed in 2010. I took it down as people were trying to make something out of nothing.

[T. Adams]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

Seems to be a lot of armchair NTSB people out there. I have now read where some are saying the tail wheel came out between pylon 6 and 7. Well this shot is from pylon 8, just before it all went bad, lap #3. As he passed us photogs by, everything looked good.

[rwflyboy]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

As Always Mr Tim.... great photo's!

[51fixer]

Re: Ghost photo w/out trimtab

Okay, I need help. Last night.. night before... heck, I can't remember...someone posted information regarding the P-51's having trim tab problems that were documented when they were first manufactured. Or something to that effect.

To save me, I can't find that post. I told someone about it, and he'd like the info and the website it came from. I apologize for being vague, but I feel like I have to be careful due to the ongoing investigation.

So, if someone can point me in the right direction, or PM that website, I'd really appreciate it.

It has been several years since I posted on this site.

The P-51D's Tail development during WWII involved several stages.
After the Merlin was installed in the B/C and further when changes to the D model involved installing the D Bubble canopy and the reduction in the fus area.

There was situations where the pilot could over control with the rudder creating excessive loads on the tail. To correct this the Rudder Trim Tab mechanism was redesigned so that the tab would move in the same direction as the rudder, imparting a load against the pilots input. (A Trim Tab works by being positioned by the pilot and works opposite of the direction you want to go. If you want some Right Rudder the tab would move to the Left and by this deflection to the left of a small surface would move the larger Rudder slightly to the right.) This setup where the tab also moves with the Rudder movemnet is call an Anti-Servo Tab but it wouldn't overcome the pilots input of rudder but act as some feedback so the pilot knew he was pushing and could continue pushing if he wanted to push harder. Previously without the Anti-Servo Tab feayure the initial push could have been more than needed and it was easy to overdue the rudder input. This modification reduced over controlling of the Rudder and the issues related to that.

Other tail issues came from the Elevators being covered with Fabric. The fabric covering could move some and in cases act as a trim tab of sorts inducing uncommanded movements of the A/C. In a gun platform this wasn't the greatest thing so they incorporated a metal covering of the elevators of which all but a few flying P-51s have today. As a part of this same change the angle of incidence of the horizontal stabilizer was made reducing the angle slightly. The same Trim Tabs were used on both the fabric and metal elevators.

As time went on other reinforcements and changes were made that increased the metal thickness of some of the parts. There was also a triangular fairing installed in front of the rudder that made up for the loss of the surface area of the fus removed in the changes to put a bubble canopy on. Nothing much changed in the trim tabs themselves though.

These changes were marked by AF Tech Orders in the field and also by production line changes if coming out of the factory.

Rich