Updates & Links

[Bob]

Re: Updates & Links

Does anyone think that the boil off system with all that water on board played any part in keeping the fuel from igniting? I do. I think that that modification saved alot of people from some horrible injuries.

[Mluvara]

Re: Updates & Links

Latest from Reno Crash- NTSB leak

Interesting information -

•So here is the scoop I got over the weekend. Turns out one of the mechanics at the airport was on the ground team for one of the unlimited racers and had the spot in the pits right next to the lost plane. The ground team had a real time data feed from the airplane.
•Looks like the plane had a high speed flutter on the port elevator trim tab. The pilot reported a vibration.
•The trim tab came off in flight which caused the entire tail group to twist. There are trim tabs on both sides and the asymmetry caused a huge over load. Also high power settings require a lot of nose down trim to stay level, the loss of the trim tab could not be overcome by the pilot. The twist in the tail group made the tendency to nose up even greater and caused damage to the internal structure in the tail – looking at the pictures you will see the tail wheel is down and the gear doors are gone – stuff was coming apart in there.
•The twist and the loss of trim caused a near instantaneous 11G pull up – this probably incapacitated the 73 year old pilot and may even have broken the mounts on the pilot seat. Note you cannot see him in the cockpit. The 11G pull also caused a brief loss of engine power from low fuel pressure – the pump could not overcome 11G.
•After the 11G pull up the airplane unloaded in steep climb – with the G off the engine regained power.
•Without the pilot to overcome it the airplane torque rolled causing a split S into the ground.
•The data showed that the airplane was pulling 105 inches on manifold pressure on impact. The "normal" race boost would be 60 to 70. So the airplane was going just under 500MPH when it hit so no fire just total disintegration.

One of the problems right now is there are a ton of rumors going around as to the "information" from the airplane that people are labeling as fact. The fact is this - the "telemetry" on the airplane was only capable of measuring +/- 8g's. Whether or not it was more, I don't think anyone knows the exact number or ever will know.

I would refrain from posting anything one "hears" as leaks from inside sources. Let the NTSB release pertinent information in due time, whether tomorrow or a year from now.

Michael

[De Camara]

Re: Updates & Links

One of the problems right now is there are a ton of rumors going around as to the "information" from the airplane that people are labeling as fact. The fact is this - the "telemetry" on the airplane was only capable of measuring +/- 8g's. Whether or not it was more, I don't think anyone knows the exact number or ever will know.

I would refrain from posting anything one "hears" as leaks from inside sources. Let the NTSB release pertinent information in due time, whether tomorrow or a year from now.

Michael

Thanks for clearing that up Michael.


Doc

[sandramore]

Re: Updates & Links

Today's news

Miami Herald - Funeral for air show pilot to be held in Florida

KTVN Channel 2 - Saint Mary's Hospital Releases All Air Races Patients

Amador Ledger Dispatch - The Reno air race

Detroit Free Press - Jack Roush's NASCAR diary: Tony Stewart off to great start, but Carl Edwards, Matt Kenseth will make moves - Jack Roush mentions Jimmy.

North Jersey.com - Air shows are different

Times Record News - Safety measures taken for air show

[AAFO_WSagar]

Re: Updates & Links

One of the problems right now is there are a ton of rumors going around as to the "information" from the airplane that people are labeling as fact. The fact is this - the "telemetry" on the airplane was only capable of measuring +/- 8g's. Whether or not it was more, I don't think anyone knows the exact number or ever will know.

I would refrain from posting anything one "hears" as leaks from inside sources. Let the NTSB release pertinent information in due time, whether tomorrow or a year from now.

Michael

Thank you Michael, and with that, I would have to say this "leak" should be considered invalid. The NTSB has your data, I'm going to assume that they know the limits, they would not have a report "out there" with that incorrect data report in it..

Sounds like a fabrication to me...

[Mluvara]

Re: Updates & Links

Thank you Michael, and with that, I would have to say this "leak" should be considered invalid. The NTSB has your data, I'm going to assume that they know the limits, they would not have a report "out there" with that incorrect data report in it..

Sounds like a fabrication to me...

There are countless postings all over the internet of data from 11 to 22.6 g's floating around. All I can say is that I don't believe there were any other recording devices on the airplane and the one I supplied was only good to +/-8 g's of measurement.

The NTSB has the data and system in hand and have contacted me. I will continue to support them in the investigation as requested, but will not make any public statements on it.

I just want people to consider the validity and source of information that they see on the internet before repeating it or passing it on.

Michael

[spacegrrrl]

Re: Updates & Links

Thank you Michael, and with that, I would have to say this "leak" should be considered invalid. The NTSB has your data, I'm going to assume that they know the limits, they would not have a report "out there" with that incorrect data report in it..

Sounds like a fabrication to me...

I agree with Wayne, I don't believe the "leak" at all. Sounds like someone wrapped a nice story around some common rummors, some I think that can be and have been easily refuted.



Spacegrrrrl

[madman]

Re: Updates & Links

http://www.rgj.com/article/20110930/...text|FRONTPAGE

[sandramore]

Re: Updates & Links

The News Tribune - Washington State - Trio of Tacoma firefighters witnessed horrors, responded as heroes in Reno air show tragedy

Times Record News - Texas - Our Opinion: Sky's the limit for air show

Reno Gazette Journal - Steve Falcone: Auto racing shows that a dangerous sport can be made safer

Reno Gazette Journal - Coming Sunday: FAA rules didn't anticipate out-of-control plane

[sandramore]

Re: Updates & Links

Sunday's news.

The Nevada Appeal - Carson City - Commentary by Guy W. Farmer: Air races, guns and motorcycles

North County Times - MIRAMAR: Should air shows be stopped?

These have their own thread, but I'm including them here as well.

Reno Gazette Journal - Can events like Reno Air Races and Street Vibrations continue amid concerns over insurance costs, litigation and violence?

Reno Gazette Journal - Reno Air Races crash beyond scope of FAA safety precautions

[sandramore]

Re: Updates & Links

Monday's "news"

AZ Central.com - Reno air crash was beyond scope of FAA safety rulesRegurgitation of what was reported elsewhere

Newnan Times Herald, Georgia - Great Georgia Airshow: Safety on minds of organizers

Thankfully, that's it. Apparently Reno will get mentioned every time someone holds an air show....

[sandramore]

Re: Updates & Links

Tuesday's articles:

Insurance Insider - Chartis leads $100mn Reno Air liability policy
This is a subscription site, so I don't have the complete article. If anyone has access, it might be nice to post the whole piece.

Magic Valley.com (Idaho) - 'Low and Fast' Air Show Coming to Magic Valley
Read more: http://magicvalley.com/news/local/tw...#ixzz1Zq0uIhnk

Bakersfield Californian - ROSS KALLENBERGER: Takeaway from Reno tragedy: We can't live inside a bubble.
A really nice article.

He mentions this article, so I'm posting it again:

New York Times, 9/20/11 - Air Race Fans, Despite Crash, Remain Steadfast

That seems to be it for the day...

[sandramore]

Re: Updates & Links

Wednesday

KTVN, Channel 2 - Local Civil Air Patrol Faces Financial Challenge
The races are their sole fundraiser.

MyFox Phoenix - Wogan Family to Throw Out First Pitch at Diamondbacks Game

Brooks, AB Bulletin - Father and son escape injury at air race crash

RGJ - Fact Checker: Should partner have been notified of death first?

Compliments of madman: RGJ - "We'd like to talk to vendors who were at this year's air races."

And of course, there's the section of the Reno Gazette Journal dedicated to providing us with information they need interpreted, including insurance documents, leases, etc. This stuff also has a thread of it's own.

[sandramore]

Re: Updates & Links

Thursday, 10/6/11

Colfax Californian - Bystander: Reno Air Races crash was 'worst moment of my life/Robert Feiring attends every year and plans to go again

[Bob]

Re: Updates & Links

Thats me
How did I do?