O/T Working Turbo/Super charger

[airtj]

Just wondering if any of the WWII airplanes either fighters or bombers that are flying, have the turbo/super charger working?

[BuckyD]

Re: O/T Working Turbo/Super charger

Ron Fagan's awesomely-beautiful flying P-38 restoration- "Ruff Stuff" has working turbo- superchargers I believe.

DBD

[flyingsailor]

Re: O/T Working Turbo/Super charger

CAF B-29 and B-24 do not have the turbo/superchargers installed.

[AirDOGGe]

Re: O/T Working Turbo/Super charger

Many of the "stangs will be using superchargers.

Rare Bear is supecharged but does NOT have power-recovery turbines on it's 3350 (too heavy), and the former P-38 racer White Lightning did not have turbos installed (they're only needed for high altitude flight, I believe).

[51fixer]

Re: O/T Working Turbo/Super charger

Not to get to nit-picky-
All the WWII high power engines have an Internal Supercharger.
In addition to this some designs improved the performance by adding an additional device for compressing more air into the engine.
Some used the Turbo/Supercharger (turbocharger) using the expanding flow of exhaust gases to turn an impeller which compressed more air into the engine.
Another method was an exhaust driven shaft which was run back into the engine transmitting power into the core of the rotating parts. This is referred as the Turbo-Compound.
A few also used an extra surpercharger (2 separate supercharger units in series) section powered by the engine core. P-63 V1710 used a driveshaft and versions of the R-2800 used this with supercharger speeds being varied by shifting through various gears.
I'm assuming you are referring to the exhaust Turbo/Supercharger set ups. The P-38s I worked on had the TSC in place but gutted so only exhaust flowed through. The Evergreen B-17 had them fully operational when it was flying. Friedkin's P-38 may have them reinstalled and hooked up last I heard.
The TSC really doesn't add much power at the altitudes these things are flown at today. Very few are operated at higher altitudes so even if installed their use would probably be limited.

[Chad Veich]

Re: O/T Working Turbo/Super charger

I believe the Klaers/Wocjiak P-47D has the super charger installed and functional.

[440_Magnum]

Re: O/T Working Turbo/Super charger

FiFi the B-29 of course no longer has her turbos installed with the new engines.

However, there used to be a "stories" section on the CAF webpage (maybe still buried somewhere on there) with interesting recollections of the recovery efforts in the early days of the CAF and other adventures. I'm going from very old memory so this is a SERIOUS paraphrase, and the actual story may have even been "enhanced" (warbird pilots? embellish? NAH!!) but....

Back in the 70s, high-octane AVGAS was still available... sometimes. When FiFi would make tours for airshows, some airfields had a little of the good stuff for the tanks and they'd load up as much as they could whenever they could. One time they were at a field that had a large supply of high-lead avgas, so they hatched a plan to come back with as much as possible. The problem was that a full fuel load put FiFi over the weight that they normally operated at without use of turbos at all. The turbos on FiFi were still in place, guts intact, at that time but the normal control systems were long out of use. One thing that would still work was to manually close the wastegates for maximum T/O power and then use the electric override to open them after takeoff- so that's how they took off with a full fuel load. Given what I've since read about those early B-29 engine installations, I would NOT have wanted to be on board for that exercise.

[440_Magnum]

Re: O/T Working Turbo/Super charger

CAF B-29 and B-24 do not have the turbo/superchargers installed.

IIRC, the CAF "B-24," actually being an early LB-30A intended for delivery to the Brits, NEVER had turbochargers at all.

[440_Magnum]

Re: O/T Working Turbo/Super charger

[QUOTE=AirDOGGe;96052]Many of the "stangs will be using superchargers.
/QUOTE]

I've read that you can't even run a Merlin without the supercharger. Not because it HAS to have boost, but because the blower drive is an integral part of the accessory drives and also necessary for crankshaft torsional vibration damping on that engine.

Sparrow? True, false, half-true???

[Sparrow]

Re: O/T Working Turbo/Super charger

The "blower drive" is located in the wheelcase and all of the componants that are needed to make the engine run are captive in that accessory case (wheelcase). If you were to either remove the drive gear from the supercharger shaft or leave the guts out of the blower altogether, the engine would run.

Sparrow

[51fixer]

Re: O/T Working Turbo/Super charger

[QUOTE=440_Magnum;96105]

Many of the "stangs will be using superchargers.
/QUOTE]

I've read that you can't even run a Merlin without the supercharger. Not because it HAS to have boost, but because the blower drive is an integral part of the accessory drives and also necessary for crankshaft torsional vibration damping on that engine.

Sparrow? True, false, half-true???

RR made a version of the Merlin called the Meteor. No blower, carbs on top, flywheel instead of a nosecase. They were used in Tanks. I think about 700 HP.

[440_Magnum]

Re: O/T Working Turbo/Super charger

The "blower drive" is located in the wheelcase and all of the componants that are needed to make the engine run are captive in that accessory case (wheelcase). If you were to either remove the drive gear from the supercharger shaft or leave the guts out of the blower altogether, the engine would run.

Sparrow

And I suppose you could put a small flywheel in place of the blower wheel to keep the crank from failing due to torsional flex maybe?

But its kinda an exercise in silliness since without the blower the engine would only produce about the same power as the Meteor (tank) or Marine versions of the Merlin. The point being that if a Merlin is flying in an airplane today, then it does have its supercharger intact.

[51fixer]

Re: O/T Working Turbo/Super charger

And I suppose you could put a small flywheel in place of the blower wheel to keep the crank from failing due to torsional flex maybe?

Don't think a flywheel is needed.
Shaft that drives the supercharger has a torsional shaft in it.

This is Griffon 65 Shaft but is similar to a Merlin.

Actually there is a backup as drive is a 2 piece assy in case the inner, main shaft fails. The flange bolt holes visible in the Supercharger Drive Gear act as a back up method to drive things in the wheel case using the outer tube.

Aft side of this arrangement.

This is the flange that bolts to the front of the crank to drive the pinion gear in the nosecase. Rear flange would bolt up in a similar fashion.

Drive shaft in the flange. Top of the shaft inserts into the pinion gear.

[Harley909]

Re: O/T Working Turbo/Super charger

The Turbo's on Witchcraft are operational, and used everyday.

jim

[bvance]

Re: O/T Working Turbo/Super charger

Yankee Air Museum's "Yankee Lady" is the only B-17 flying with the turbosuperchargering system completely functional, back to Boeing factory spec's. All the other B-17 that use their turbos have their systems either incomplete or highly modified.
Bill Klears/Alan Wojciak's P-47, along with Neal Melton's (Tenn Museum of Aviation) "Hun Hunter" also have fully restored turbo systems. There are a few others out there as well.