Re: Impounded Skyraider
If the hangar was where they had found the cannons then I could see that line of reasoning. It wasn't, and I doubt there was any reports of firearms or known criminals being seen in the hangar vicinity. They could have simply gone there with paperwork and their regular-issue handguns, and probably wouldn't even have had to draw them from their holsters. There's cautious, and there's ridiculously cautious on the verge of stepping on civil rights and/or going too far.
Who would need those cannons? The owner of that vintage 60-year-old Warbird perhaps(?), someone who already OWNS several vintage birds and is not known to be involve in any militia or terrorist activity. The weapons were NOT installed in the airframe and they knew all this before the raid, as the feds already had taken possession of those guns six months earlier, plenty of time to "researched" everything and everyone they were aware of being involved.. They knew damn well no terrorists were a part of this when they finally went after the aircraft.
WORKING guns weren't needed of course, but what evidence was there that says the plane owner intended to reinstall them BEFORE having then disabled first? Does he have any functional guns on his other warbirds?
The raid to obtain the aircraft was over-cautious if you ask me. It was simply a "repossess-in-place" process, not a drug or arms-deal raid. They had 24 weeks to research and observe the hangar site and those involved. I don't they saw anyone of past criminal record or somebody waving around a weapon justifying such a need for something like machine guns. Jeez!
Just the outcome of the case says it all. The owner didn't smuggle the plane in nor hire anyone to do it. All evidence says he though he was in a legit deal, and that all regs were being followed. yet HE gets punished for being a victim. It reminds me of that young Islamic lass who is being tried for adultery and faces the death penalty just because she was forcibly raped! What was she suppose to do to avoid it? Stay locked up indoors forever?
There are business deals that require some trust of who you are dealing with (banking for instance) and the victim should not be held responsible and suffer losses in these cases where they are conned or lied to.
In my opinion, this is what true justice would look like:
--> The owner should get the plane, maybe paying a small fine for a poor job of picking that particular importer. You can't read their minds though, so liability should be very limited. Credentials can be faked.
--> Those involved with importing the plane (and guns) illegally and secretly with full knowledge that they were doing so should get jail time. Spank their naughty bottoms (or let their cell-mates do it).
--> The government should keep the 20mm guns for it's museum and tell the plane owner to fab non-firing replicas for the plane,...
OR...
...disable the guns to the point where they won't chamber nor fire ammo anymore, then return them to the plane owner so they can be re-mounted on the airframe. The owner would have to cover the cost of modifying/disabling the guns.
The ONLY thing that would change my mind is if the Feds found some evidence that the intended owner DID have at least a little knowledge that some "hanky-panky" would be necessary to get the plane over here due to regulations and expenses, and is keeping mum about any grey areas. If this is the case, those-in-charge aren't saying.
Originally posted by Frank C.
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If the hangar was where they had found the cannons then I could see that line of reasoning. It wasn't, and I doubt there was any reports of firearms or known criminals being seen in the hangar vicinity. They could have simply gone there with paperwork and their regular-issue handguns, and probably wouldn't even have had to draw them from their holsters. There's cautious, and there's ridiculously cautious on the verge of stepping on civil rights and/or going too far.
Originally posted by Frank C.
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Who would need those cannons? The owner of that vintage 60-year-old Warbird perhaps(?), someone who already OWNS several vintage birds and is not known to be involve in any militia or terrorist activity. The weapons were NOT installed in the airframe and they knew all this before the raid, as the feds already had taken possession of those guns six months earlier, plenty of time to "researched" everything and everyone they were aware of being involved.. They knew damn well no terrorists were a part of this when they finally went after the aircraft.
...CBP officers seized the cannons and aircraft parts on Oct. 15, 2008. The ICE HSI investigation following that seizure revealed the Skyraider aircraft had entered the United States illegally. ICE HSI agents seized the plane pursuant to a court order on April 24, 2009,
WORKING guns weren't needed of course, but what evidence was there that says the plane owner intended to reinstall them BEFORE having then disabled first? Does he have any functional guns on his other warbirds?
The raid to obtain the aircraft was over-cautious if you ask me. It was simply a "repossess-in-place" process, not a drug or arms-deal raid. They had 24 weeks to research and observe the hangar site and those involved. I don't they saw anyone of past criminal record or somebody waving around a weapon justifying such a need for something like machine guns. Jeez!
Just the outcome of the case says it all. The owner didn't smuggle the plane in nor hire anyone to do it. All evidence says he though he was in a legit deal, and that all regs were being followed. yet HE gets punished for being a victim. It reminds me of that young Islamic lass who is being tried for adultery and faces the death penalty just because she was forcibly raped! What was she suppose to do to avoid it? Stay locked up indoors forever?
There are business deals that require some trust of who you are dealing with (banking for instance) and the victim should not be held responsible and suffer losses in these cases where they are conned or lied to.
In my opinion, this is what true justice would look like:
--> The owner should get the plane, maybe paying a small fine for a poor job of picking that particular importer. You can't read their minds though, so liability should be very limited. Credentials can be faked.
--> Those involved with importing the plane (and guns) illegally and secretly with full knowledge that they were doing so should get jail time. Spank their naughty bottoms (or let their cell-mates do it).
--> The government should keep the 20mm guns for it's museum and tell the plane owner to fab non-firing replicas for the plane,...
OR...
...disable the guns to the point where they won't chamber nor fire ammo anymore, then return them to the plane owner so they can be re-mounted on the airframe. The owner would have to cover the cost of modifying/disabling the guns.
The ONLY thing that would change my mind is if the Feds found some evidence that the intended owner DID have at least a little knowledge that some "hanky-panky" would be necessary to get the plane over here due to regulations and expenses, and is keeping mum about any grey areas. If this is the case, those-in-charge aren't saying.
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