Tuskegee Airmen

[Dash]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

I've been in trail and in close formation and seen planes seemingly do the impossible. I believe the memories are accurate and what is missing a lot of time in the CGI is that they give us a unique perspective of what the action would be like with a fixed camera in space in the middle of the dogfight. Our memories are based on the relative movement though which distorts the appearance of these aircraft maneuvers.

Lucas said that this film is different than Tuskegee Airman in that film was trying to show you the struggles of being a black pilot while this one is promoting that these men were heroes and the pride they took in being pilots and soldiers. Undoubtedly, some of that will show the hardship as well, but I think this will be a great story. You should be able to go to YouTube or similar and see Kermit Weeks take some of the real heroes in his P-51C. It is painted as a tribute to them and I have never seen such a fine restoration. It has original parts that I've never seen on another restoration. Every switch, every label on every cable, even the map lights. Really worth a look.

There will never be another Hell's Angels type of a film. We simply don't have the planes and if we did they would be "borrowed" and never be allowed to do the close action required. CGI will eventually replace many elements in the real world and will eventually be completely passable as the real thing. I wonder why nobody has taken one of these ILM type programs and added code to it such as what is in X-plane to make the flight models perform such as they really would? Seems like that would be a worthwhile thing to design. Jeff, if you can make it happen, feel free to take my idea and run with it.

[Big_Jim]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

You should be able to go to YouTube or similar and see Kermit Weeks take some of the real heroes in his P-51C. It is painted as a tribute to them and I have never seen such a fine restoration. It has original parts that I've never seen on another restoration. Every switch, every label on every cable, even the map lights. Really worth a look.

Not to take anything away from that project, but for me it was a personal shame when Mr. Weeks restored that aircraft that way. I would have much rather seen it restored in it's racing glory.

Just my worthless .02, though.

[flyingjibus]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

CGI will eventually replace many elements in the real world and will eventually be completely passable as the real thing. I wonder why nobody has taken one of these ILM type programs and added code to it such as what is in X-plane to make the flight models perform such as they really would? Seems like that would be a worthwhile thing to design. Jeff, if you can make it happen, feel free to take my idea and run with it.

CGI programs use rendering to take 3-d models and move them as the artist directs.

X-plane(Flight sims in general) use 3-D models in a completely diffrent way.

For every second of time a plane is flying in a sim the computer is using processing power to determine how that 3-d model is going to be affected by the simulated physics in the game.

This does not happen with Computer animation. All processing power is used only to determine what the 3-d models look like from a certain prespective as set forth by the story board of the film.


Combining the two would require much bigger and more expensive computers, Which is why flight sims dont look as good as movies and movies dont fly as good as flight sims.

Your idea is do-able, but nowhere near as cost effective as simply hiring artists who know how planes fly.

[Coyote Chris]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Jeff, great vid!!!!!!!!! Man those guy's minds are sharp even today!

[Dash]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Not to take anything away from that project, but for me it was a personal shame when Mr. Weeks restored that aircraft that way. I would have much rather seen it restored in it's racing glory.

Just my worthless .02, though.

Big Jim, I don't know the history of that aircraft, which raceplane was it? I was told that it was an actual "C" model and not a hybrid "D/C" model that several are. Is this correct? Also not sure what the CAF Red Tail plane's heritage is either?

[xmh53wrench]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Took the wifey out to see it last night. We both loved it, kinda sparked her interest and appreciation for what's been consuming me as of late. I was expecting the cg stuff to be way more over the top.

[Leo]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Both NX1204 and NX1202 (Charles Blairs "Excaliber, now in the Smithsonian) were Paul Mantz's stable of racers and did very well in the 47-49 Bendix races. With wet wings (which caused huge corrosion issues as the planes aged) and being just a tad faster than a D model they sort of dominated for those years.
I remember seeing at the old Movieland Museum at Orange County airport in the 70's and it was quite sad looking BUT the only razorback around to see at the time.

[Big_Jim]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Here you go, Leo.

NX1204 at Tallmantz with me and Hacker.

Yeah, I know...the Star Wars shirt rocks.

[Big_Jim]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Big Jim, I don't know the history of that aircraft, which raceplane was it? I was told that it was an actual "C" model and not a hybrid "D/C" model that several are. Is this correct? Also not sure what the CAF Red Tail plane's heritage is either?

Like Leo said, NX1202 and NX1204 were Paul Mantz's Cleveland-era cross country racers. NX1202 won the 1946 and 47 Bendix races, and NX1204 won the 1948 race.

NX1202 was sold to Charles Blair and renamed "Stormy Petrel"/"Excaliber III", and was used to set several distance records in the 1950's. It's currently hanging in the Udvar-Hazy museum at Dulles. NX1204 was kept at the Tallmantz Movieland of the Air through the mid 1980's when Tallmantz went out of business, and Kermit Weeks purchased the entire collection. It is currently restored and flying in Red Tail markings as Ina the Macon Belle.

The CAF's C-model was actually found derelict in Idaho in the early 1960's. My buddy RLP made it airworthy and it was taken to Old Rebel Field for the CAF. Sat languishing for a couple of decades until about 10 years ago when they finally gave a restoration push to it. It had a fatal crash after an engine failure on take-off, but it has since been rebuilt.

[Jeff E]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

My Business partner worked on this film on the California set and @ the Sonoma Valley Airport. We all went and saw it on Friday to celebrate his work on it. The backstory of much of this film is amazing to say the least. Watching the number of artists who worked on it is awesome and to the their work even more so.
I feel bad for those who will not go see this movie because it is CGI based. That is sad, because the story is not about graphics and even metal and wood, its about people. My Lucas put in his own money to make this movie to tell the story of a bunch of men who he felt needed to have their story told - I am glad he did because they deserved it. Without computer aided graphics this movie would have cost him so much more. As a matter of fact, most of the movie that was filmed in Europe had to be re filmed over again because it didnt tell the story correctly.

After we saw the film and cheered on business partner we came back to the studio and looked at his still shots form the filming. WOW! All the cockpit shots were amazing in comparison of what they shot verses what the finished product looked like. You just cant strap a GOPRO on the front of a Mustang and get that.
I hope you enjoy it as much as we did..

Jeff e

[sledge39]

Re: ...NX1204...1961...

... June 1961 at Paul Mantz' place at Santa Ana...

...shortly before merging ops with Frank Tallman to create Tallmantz...

.

[xmh53wrench]

Re: ...NX1204...1961...

... June 1961 at Paul Mantz' place at Santa Ana...

...shortly before merging ops with Frank Tallman to create Tallmantz...

.

HMMM....do I see another model build in my future.....great photos!!

[Leo]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Reed Kinert's books are good sources for info also. There is a lot of information out there. Both Mantz and Tallman were very colorful characters.
Sorry if this dragged

[Big_Jim]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Reed Kinert's books are good sources for info also. There is a lot of information out there. Both Mantz and Tallman were very colorful characters.
Sorry if this dragged

Birch Matthews' "Wet Wings & Drop Tanks" is VERY good for stuff on the Mantz Bendix racers.

[f1-69]

Re: Tuskegee Airmen

Just saw it the story was good the but the cg did suck pretty bad,