Rare Bear Speed Record Attempt This Year

[DWYER]

Re: Rare Bear Speed Record Attempt This Year

This has probably been answered many times before but, what made them decide to invest in the 3 blade? Was it just an experiment? How many years did they run it? For some reason I thought it was built just for the speed record but it sounds like I was wrong.

Man, those were the days......

[Big_Jim]

Re: Rare Bear Speed Record Attempt This Year

This has probably been answered many times before but, what made them decide to invest in the 3 blade? Was it just an experiment? How many years did they run it? For some reason I thought it was built just for the speed record but it sounds like I was wrong.

Man, those were the days......

It was built in '88-89, and flown from 1990-2003. Any prop change is an attempt to get more efficiency--to be able to 'use' the power available from the engine. It was just such a big mass whirring around up front that the circle-gyro forces were HUGE. I know Lyle would come back with rubber legs after running it around the pylons.

[C_roundy]

Re: Rare Bear Speed Record Attempt This Year

With all this discussion about which is the fastest prop for Rare Bear,
I could'nt resist sharing a video of the first flight testing we're doing on a new prop design for our little Bear. Its a kinda boring flight, I'm just doing a bunch of straight passes for initial telemetry data.
OH, Wait!, come June-July big daddy Bear's gonna be doing straight passes just for telemetry too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-aMbJEF4zs

Salute Lyle and Rod!!!, Fly Fast Stu and John!!!

P.S. With all the little refinements that Dave Cornell and the rest of Team Rare Bear have cumulatively massaged into Bear since the 1989 flight, and if they manage to shoe horn enough nitrous in Bear's nooks and crannys to last for a whole 4 pass attempt, and if the stars align properly, I'm looking for this phenomenal airplane to knock the speed record clear out of the park.

[planecrazy2]

Re: Rare Bear Speed Record Attempt This Year

I know it sounded cool. I own a canoe, and I liked the big old paddles on the 3 blade prop.

But it was NOT SUCCESFUL. An experiment that did not pan out.

For all the swooning and heartfelt emotional attachment folks have over this thing...let it go already.

Oh, and Rod, I would be more than happy to hold the stopwatch for you when you go for the record, PM me with directions and I'll meet you there.

[ignomini]

Re: Rare Bear Speed Record Attempt This Year

Let it go? I'm still trying to figure out how all those people on the bottom of the Earth don't fall off.

I seem to recall Matt Jackson or somebody talking about how vibration from the three blade cause knobs in the cockpit to continually unscrew while the plane was at speed.

Unsuccessful or not, like a bad government program, I'll never give up on it.

[knot4u]

Re: Rare Bear Speed Record Attempt This Year

I hope the Bear smashes the present record, 3 blade or 4 blade (i prefer the three blade). With all due respect to Lyle and all those involved with the current record. knot4u

[grampi]

Re: Rare Bear Speed Record Attempt This Year

A couple things come to mind; hasn't Bear been running a pretty much stock engine, even as recent as last year's Reno race? It's obvious Bear will have to be on the juice to break the record, so either they've done some pretty substantial engine mods between now and last Sep, or they've been pulling our leg about running a nearly stock engine.

Also, I personally believe out of all the other planes I think that have a shot at breaking the record, it seems to me Dago would have the best shot of doing it. What is going on with Dago and why has it been removed from racing? It makes no sense to me that the fastest piston/propeller driven plane ever is not racing. Someone needs to bring her back.

I also think Strega could break Bear's record, they just need to make their minds up to do it...

[Tigercat24]

Re: Rare Bear Speed Record Attempt This Year

Rare Bear ran a stock Skyraider engine in 2009. They put the Dave Cornell full race engine on in 2010, and John Penney repeatedly said in 2010 and 2011 that it is the best engine the airframe has ever seen. The potential for speed is there, especially since 2009's race speed on the stock engine was higher than 2007's winning race speed on a race engine. Airframe mods between those years had something to do with it, boil-off system included. And since Stu Dawson qualified the Bear at just over 2009's race speed (holding back as well), it's safe to say that Rare Bear has not shown her full hand yet Oh and by the way, Rare Bear's Closed Course Speed Record of 528+MPH is higher than Dago Red's Closed Course Speed Record of 517+MPH. And the 3km Record is the Absolute Record, which is what the Bear ran. Dago ran the 15km. Go roundies Although I still give concession to Dago Red's Race Speed Record of 507+MPH in 2003. Very impressive stuff.

[grampi]

Re: Rare Bear Speed Record Attempt This Year

Rare Bear ran a stock Skyraider engine in 2009. They put the Dave Cornell full race engine on in 2010, and John Penney repeatedly said in 2010 and 2011 that it is the best engine the airframe has ever seen. The potential for speed is there, especially since 2009's race speed on the stock engine was higher than 2007's winning race speed on a race engine. Airframe mods between those years had something to do with it, boil-off system included. And since Stu Dawson qualified the Bear at just over 2009's race speed (holding back as well), it's safe to say that Rare Bear has not shown her full hand yet Oh and by the way, Rare Bear's Closed Course Speed Record of 528+MPH is higher than Dago Red's Closed Course Speed Record of 517+MPH. And the 3km Record is the Absolute Record, which is what the Bear ran. Dago ran the 15km. Go roundies Although I still give concession to Dago Red's Race Speed Record of 507+MPH in 2003. Very impressive stuff.

You're comparing apples to oranges there. Those records don't say much about today's planes. I heard tale that just before Dago was taken out of racing it was capable of speeds in excess of 575...now obviously those speeds weren't attianed following the strict confines of the 3km requirements, but I think it's a pretty good indication Dago could break Bear's record by a substantial amount....

[Big_Jim]

Re: Rare Bear Speed Record Attempt This Year

You're comparing apples to oranges there. Those records don't say much about today's planes. I heard tale that just before Dago was taken out of racing it was capable of speeds in excess of 575...now obviously those speeds weren't attianed following the strict confines of the 3km requirements, but I think it's a pretty good indication Dago could break Bear's record by a substantial amount....

"Those records don't say much about today's planes"? Are you kidding me? That record has stood for almost 25 years.

Talking about it and hearing tales about it are two completely different things. The record is at 529. If you think you can better it, go get it. Until then...it's all just talk. Every time this subject comes up the pundits and know-it-all's (i.e. those of you who aren't pilots or racers but did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night), you all talk a big game about how Dago, Strega, the Bear, and yes, even the Ghost have all gone XXX mph on the race course.

You know, 10 years ago in the race boat we had people saying that the hydroplanes were all exceeding the existing speed record at the end of the straighaways on each lap of racing. But trust me...maintaining those speeds consistently for 17 seconds through the traps are a world of difference from a couple of seconds during a lap. Well, we did it when nobody else could and when those that tried broke a LOT of equipment trying. It may look easy and effortless to you. It's not.

Yup...Strega, Dago, the Bear, etc. all go really fast on the race course. Until you do it in a straight line, for all the required runs, under the rules of the attempt, with the cameras rolling and functioning property, it don't count for crap.

Talk to anyone--ANYONE--who was involved with the last three successful attempts (Greenamyer, Hinton, Shelton), or even better, go talk to anyone from the Dago or Tsunami teams and ask them how 'easy' going for the record is, regardless of how fast the 'race speeds' of the airplanes are.

If the Bear guys can go out there and beat the existing record, they will have earned it, and I wish them all the best.

However, the more you guys debate about it, the more ignorant on the subject you sound.

Okay, back to obscurity again. Flame on.

[Dialtapper]

Re: Rare Bear Speed Record Attempt This Year

Rare Bear ran a stock Skyraider engine in 2009.


They put the Dave Cornell full race engine on in 2010, and John Penney repeatedly said in 2010 and 2011 that it is the best engine the airframe has ever seen. The potential for speed is there, especially since 2009's race speed on the stock engine was higher than 2007's winning race speed on a race engine. Airframe mods between those years had something to do with it, boil-off system included. And since Stu Dawson qualified the Bear at just over 2009's race speed (holding back as well), it's safe to say that Rare Bear has not shown her full hand yet Oh and by the way, Rare Bear's Closed Course Speed Record of 528+MPH is higher than Dago Red's Closed Course Speed Record of 517+MPH. And the 3km Record is the Absolute Record, which is what the Bear ran. Dago ran the 15km. Go roundies Although I still give concession to Dago Red's Race Speed Record of 507+MPH in 2003. Very impressive stuff.

"Rare Bear ran a stock Skyraider engine in 2009."

Not true. A stock Skyraider is a -26WD. The 2009 motor is a -93 power section with a slow noescase.

The rest about the 2010 and 2011 is true.

[Dialtapper]

Re: Rare Bear Speed Record Attempt This Year

You're comparing apples to oranges there. Those records don't say much about today's planes. I heard tale that just before Dago was taken out of racing it was capable of speeds in excess of 575...now obviously those speeds weren't attianed following the strict confines of the 3km requirements, but I think it's a pretty good indication Dago could break Bear's record by a substantial amount....

" I heard tale that just before Dago was taken out of racing it was capable of speeds in excess of 575..."

Ya, and then you woke up and found yourself stuck to the sheets.

[Dialtapper]

Re: Rare Bear Speed Record Attempt This Year

"Those records don't say much about today's planes"? Are you kidding me? That record has stood for almost 25 years.

Talking about it and hearing tales about it are two completely different things. The record is at 529. If you think you can better it, go get it. Until then...it's all just talk. Every time this subject comes up the pundits and know-it-all's (i.e. those of you who aren't pilots or racers but did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night), you all talk a big game about how Dago, Strega, the Bear, and yes, even the Ghost have all gone XXX mph on the race course.

You know, 10 years ago in the race boat we had people saying that the hydroplanes were all exceeding the existing speed record at the end of the straighaways on each lap of racing. But trust me...maintaining those speeds consistently for 17 seconds through the traps are a world of difference from a couple of seconds during a lap. Well, we did it when nobody else could and when those that tried broke a LOT of equipment trying. It may look easy and effortless to you. It's not.

Yup...Strega, Dago, the Bear, etc. all go really fast on the race course. Until you do it in a straight line, for all the required runs, under the rules of the attempt, with the cameras rolling and functioning property, it don't count for crap.

Talk to anyone--ANYONE--who was involved with the last three successful attempts (Greenamyer, Hinton, Shelton), or even better, go talk to anyone from the Dago or Tsunami teams and ask them how 'easy' going for the record is, regardless of how fast the 'race speeds' of the airplanes are.

If the Bear guys can go out there and beat the existing record, they will have earned it, and I wish them all the best.

However, the more you guys debate about it, the more ignorant on the subject you sound.

Okay, back to obscurity again. Flame on.

Flame on? No, you sir are correct.

[Leo]

Re: Rare Bear Speed Record Attempt This Year

ANYBODY that takes the record has earned it. A lot of hard work and risk.

575? Do any of you aerodynamic geeks know if the mustang airframe can even do that kind of speed? Drag, power, etc.?

[Mluvara]

Re: Rare Bear Speed Record Attempt This Year

ANYBODY that takes the record has earned it. A lot of hard work and risk.

575? Do any of you aerodynamic geeks know if the mustang airframe can even do that kind of speed? Drag, power, etc.?

The problem is that there are three types of speeds people can be referring to:

IAS - Indicated Airspeed (pressure relative to aircraft's motion)
TAS - True Airspeed (speed relative to atmosphere)
GROUND SPEED - Speed over ground (typically obtained via GPS)

TAS and Ground Speed will typically be very close. Wind factors in too.

A P-51's VNE as stated from North American is 505 IAS. Since pressure changes with altitude (thinner the higher you go), true airspeed will be higher for for the same given indicated airspeed at a higher altitude. For example, true airspeed from an indicated 400 at sea level will be much less than that of 400 IAS at 10000 ft.

A 'rough' conversion is to add 2% of indicated for every 1000ft altitude.

Thus:

400IAS at 0ft = 400 TAS

400IAS at 10000ft = 480TAS

Michael